How to beat the limitations on my Rebel G + 380 EX

If you switch the camera over to manual meter and adjust your settings, you can then alter your ISO setting to adjust your flash compensation. This should only effect your TTL flash exposure if you keep the same manual settings. If you adjust your ISO higher you will use less flash, adjust it lower you will use more flash. Experiment with the settings and you should be able to make it work. Note : this will not work in any program mode.

I don't have my flash picures with me now, even if I do, I will not remember what flash exp. compensation that I used or which mode. I read my 380EX manual and it said that fill-flash auto compensation only works on green mode and P. So I assume if you use Tv, Av or M there's no auto flash compensation whatsoever. If that's the case then your adjusting ISO and ambient exposure compensation will work. The GN is the maximum output, for nearer object the TTL will adjust automatically.

I don't have an external flash. For the build-in one I use two ways of compensation.

Way 1.

a) Set the aperture and shutter speed for the ambient exposure in the manual mode;
b) then alter the ISO speed setting to fool the flash.

There are two important things to remember.

a) The TTL flash metering system gives more weight to the active focusing points. You should watch which ones are indicated active after the focusing, or select the desired point manually, or switch the lens into the manual focusing mode where all three point are weighted equally. I might have not remembered all this stuff correctly, you'd better check the EOS FAQ.
b) To block automatic flash compensation at bright light, cover the lens by your hand or something and press the partial metering button, then fire the shutter before the viewfinder display goes dark. This will not affect the exposure set in the manual mode, but will prevent the automatic flash compensation.

Way 2 (less cumbersome).

Estimate the distance to object, set the aperture to get proper flash exposure and let it fire for its full power. Since the GN=12 is quite low, it is easy. Sometimes you will want to set the aperture and shutter speed in the manual mode and then decrease the ISO speed setting to prevent auto flash quenching.

You should check if something works differently with the external flash.

Hi, I had have very good experience with my EOS1000F and 430EZ flash using the compensation system of the flash, in the other hand, i think if you are using the flash for filling in noon, you may use the Av at the level you need it and you may put the flash at -1 and the ATTL system will do the adjust for you. Another possibility in interiors is using the bounce head and the ATTL system, it works fine for me giving more naturally equilibrated exposition Sorry I dont know the 380EZ, but i presume it is very alike the 430EZ that is older.

Thanks for the above input. After reading the responses, I am still a little unclear about a few things.

1) If I use Tv, Av, or P mode for flash, then any "camera exposure compensation" will affect both the exposures of the background as well as the flash, therefore the ISO trick won't work?

2) If I use M (manual) mode for flash, then any "camera exposure compensation" will only affect the background exposure and "not" the flash exposure. Therefore I can use the ISO trick to fool my flash. Am I right?

This may be slightly off topic, but if you haven't already purchased the 380EX then I would suggest looking for a used 430EZ instead. The 380 flash is really limited in that it doesn't allow any manual control at all. If you're serious about making the fill decisions yourself, rather than relying on the auto-magic E-TTL algorithm, then manual control of the flash is indespensible. The 430EZ gives you full manual control, bounce and swivel movements, flash exposure compensation on the flash +-3 stops in 1/3 stop increments, and has a somewhat higher GN. The 380 is 100% automatic, has bounce but no swivel, and is less powerful. If you want the flash to do everything for you then the 380 is the right flash, but if you want creative control you need a flash like the 430EZ or the 540EZ.

In manual metered mode, if you meter for ambient light before adjusting your ISO, then adjust your ISO over or under for your flash compensation, then your trick will work. Regarding your purchase of the EZ series flash, don't bother. The ElanII has E-TTL capability so there's no point getting a flash without it. GOTTA have that FP flash :) My advise is to get the 550 ex. It will cost you a fortune, but there are too many benefits to not do it. Including TTL wireless control of other 550ex flashes, FP flash, exp comp, 2nd curtain sync, the list goes on.. :) I wish MY camera had E-TTL ..

Auto flash exposure compensation works in all camera modes on the Rebel G with 380EX. There is no way around it. But metering in manual mode for ambient exposure and then resetting the ISO will give you proper exposure and flash compensation. This works on any camera.

The 550EX is a great flash but it truley costs a bunch. Giving up FP flash and E-TTL metering of the 380 EX is a small price to pay for the control benifits of the 430EZ.

The above mentioned method of blocking the lens while using FEL (flash exposure lock) will only force the flash to fire at maximum power. You loose all TTL metering.

Also, the exposure compensation on the Rebel G never effects the flash exposure. In any mode. Resetting the ISO is the only way to do this. However, you can do it this way:

Reset the ISO to make the flash compensation you want. (higher ISO will reduce flash output) and then adjust the exposure compensation an equal distance in the opposite direction. Then you can use it on P, Av, Tv, or Manual. Meter & shoot normally. Compensation is set.

I'll try to answer your questions.

1. Correct. In the P, Av and Tv modes the exposure compensation control affects equally *both* flash exposure *and* ambient exposure. Resetting the ISO speed works exactly the same way except that then you dial the compensation in 1/3 stops. Available information is confusing and at this point I'd shoot a test roll if I really needed to make it clear. But I never use these modes to keep things simple.

2. There is no such thing as exposure compensation in the M mode. You have the metering scale in the viewfinder. You decide where on it the tones should be placed. Call it "zone system" if you want. After you've done with the ambient exposure, i. e. have set the aperture and shutter speed, decide on the flash compensation and change the ISO speed setting accordingly. Don't forget to reset it back after the shot.

I don't want to start a war with Vadim Makarov, but...

Exposure compensation only controls ambient exposure. It NEVER effects flash exposure.

A rebel is a hard camera to use a flash with - the 380 weighs more than the body itself. I used to use a rebel with a sunpak flash for a while - it isn't easy (I've upgraded from those primitive days though...). The metering system is adequate, but not good by any means. My answer won't really help you, unfortunately. My best advice would be not to use the flash. Or at least that's what I did. Buy a brick of tmax 3200 and learn to read available light in the viewfinder. Some of my favorite pictures that I've taken with various equipment (35mm and 6x6) were taken this way with a rebel and a 35-80 consumer lens. Just my two cents...

Hi guys! thanks again for the inputs, I appreciated that. I didn't know that the 380 is heavier than the G, so that could be a problem for balancing. Unfortunately, in some situations, the flash is a must, for example back light subject, a flash is needed so that the film can hold both the highlight and shadow detail.

After some thinking and scratching, I think that doing a test is the ultimate solution for me. However, here are some more thought of me. Since *flash exposure* depends on aperture, distance, flash duration, ISO speed, light condition, GN, and ...so on, we can see that shutter speed is *not* a factor that would affect flash exposure. So, as long as I change only the shutter speed in Av or M mode for background exposure, my flash exposure should not be affected in any ways, only the background will be affected. So, in that way I can use ISO dial to trick my flash. Unfortunately, this also means that I will be limited by the shutter speed in my photography. Am I right? Any recommendations for other brands of flash that can do flash compensation? Thanks.

War! Jim, the test has just been shot. I'll post the result few days later.

Vadim, get a flash meter it's quicker. I already did this test. :-)

Ting, I don't think there are very many aftermarket flash units for the EOS system that offer flash compensation, and even fewer that offer it with E-TTL. The ones that do are very expensive. A used 430EZ would offer the lowest price for built-in flash compensation. It would also give you rear curtain sync, strobe effects and manual.

Without flash compensation on your body, the 430EZ is clearly a better choice. If you had an Elan II, the 380EX might be a better deal.

Jim, I've got the film from the lab. The test frames showed clearly that in P, Av and Tv modes the exposure compensation control affects equally *both* flash exposure for the built-in flash *and* ambient exposure.

It was something wrong with the way you used your flashmeter. I can think of a possible cause that you didn't have film in the camera testing it, so that off-the-film metering didn't work properly. Or maybe the flash always fired at its full power.

Thank you Vadim for sharing your results. I appreciate it and is very important to me. I will do a test myself too, sometime later (not soon) and then post my result back here again. Thank you all guys for sharing!

I am interested in this very subject because I now own a Rebel 2000 (very similar to the G in regards to flash, I believe) and am considering the 380 EX. I might have an explanation for the conflicting exposure compensation test results. I'd like it if somebody else could verify this... I think I read somewhere that exposure compensation settings would affect the BUILT IN flash (the way Vadim tested it) but not an external flash. (If this is true, and I hope it is, then the film speed trick should work in Av, Tv, etc... I think. Given the controls on the Rebel, I'd hate to have to resort to full manual.)