Meter/Sunrise/Sunsets

I don't shoot many sunsets but from what I hear the best spot to meter is usually a clear section of sky above the sun.

I meter for whatever portion of the scene that I want the nail the exposure on. If it's a sunset and there are clouds with beautiful colors and that's what I want, I meter on it. If I want the foreground well exposed then I meter on it and use graduacted ND filters if needed to get the colors in the clouds/sunset. The other thing I do is bracket my shots. I now have a D80 and can set it to bracket for me, very useful. With film cameras you had to do it manually but once the technique was learned you could do it very rapidly.
The reason you got the deep red sky is that with the ND filter you were underexposing that portion of the sky. Your camera was better able to handle the dynamic range of the photo. Back in the film days we often underexposed with slide film to get deeper/richer colors.

I don't think I used to meter the streak of light, I either looked for some tall grass and realizing it is backlit, open up from the reading I got from the grass, or I tried the sky not too near the sun's disc. .... Lately I set my DSLR to the "Sunset" scene mode and everything comes out perfect ! :)

"My question is this, where do you personally meter?"
Depends what I want.

At the scene when I am setting up, I think:

1. latitude of the film /sensor
2. main element of scene
3a. Do I want to post produce – slightly blow the highlights and recover them later
3b. Do I want to post produce - multiple exposures and then layer

In the top image (sunset) I used exactly as you, the water reflection – I wanted the black foreground to form a frame. There was no post production except sharpening – it is the JPEG out of the box 20D / Kit Lens, about F8 I think.

In the middle image (sunrise) the Green was important to me, so I metered the bush and then taking into consideration the Exposure Latitude of my 5D, underexposed that value slightly – that meant the highlights were still blown, but I recovered what I needed (though not all available) in Post Production – and I still could bring enough green out – so I took this one with the aim to Post Produce it.

The bottom image (Early Morning, storm brewing) is also the JPEG, straight out of the box (5D) – I just wanted the colours of the sky. I metered on the blue sky. I think I would have underexposed from that reading maybe ½ stop or so.

I rarely use filters for this stuff (now I am with digital) – even though I have a box of them.

I find the challenge of going naked, more fun, and I have that strange passion to just nail JPEG images.

***

"i have no idea why the grad filter produced a deep red sky, it did not look this way from memory"

I assume it was a Graduated Neutral Density filter? – likely because your eye was looking into the sunrise your brain was doing a lot of compensation, hence you did not “see the red” – the GradND Filter had maximum effect over the sky – most likely just underexposing it.

Also the other key to the depth of “Redness”, will be in the Colour Temperature you set, or your camera set for you.

WW

I agree with George, using the "sunset" setting on the camera works great! I have a lot of sunrise/sunset pics in my portfolio, some of which I took in manual but I don't think they are as good as the others. The lighting changes so fast at sunset, by the time you adjust for one scene, it changed.

I meter for the brightest part of the sky, and shoot in manual. As the sun continues to set, I slow down the shutter as needed. I don't yet have a graduated ND filter, but sometimes wish I did when I want foreground elements more visible and less silhouetted.

Thanks for all the replies, it has given me a good idea of your different methods, William thank you that visual explanation, very useful, seems its a case of metering for the colours you want to keep, i would have thought if you metered the middle light you stand a better chance of keeping all of the sky detail, as you seem to have done in your third example William?.
Nathan its really worth buying a grad filter, i am not sure if mine is ND, but it really does help the reasons you mentioned.

"seems its a case of metering for the colours you want to keep,"

Yes, for me I would state: the detail I wish to show.

"i would have thought if you metered the middle light you stand a better chance of keeping all of the sky detail, as you seem to have done in your third example William?."
Do not negate the techniques of slightly overexposing the highlights and then recovering them in post production.
To establishing how far you can push this method, perhaps bracket a set of exposures and play later - but as already mentioned - the light changes quickly at sunrise / sunset, so any exposure bracketing, has to be done swiftly.

Also when "metering for the colours you want to keep" and "metered the middle light" - it is "tone" which matters for metering.
Have a look at the chart in this thread, of the "colours" which correspond to 18% Photographic Grey:
http://photo.net/wedding-photography-forum/00SfBs (Nadine Ohara Mar 06, 2009; 06:40 p.m)
"Colours" can be deceptive.

You might also wish to research HDRDP (High Dynamic Range Digital Photography) – sometimes referred to as just “HDR”.
Here is one tutorial, as an example:
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/high-dynamic-range.htm

WW