A Site for Photographers by Photographers

Community > Forums > B&W Photo - Film & Processing > Opaque filters for IR...

Featured Equipment Deals

Portrait Photography - Part II (Video Tutorial) Read More

Portrait Photography - Part II (Video Tutorial)

Learn the basics of Portrait Photography in Part II of this video tutorial, covering the essentials on timing, posing, and cropping.

Latest Equipment Articles

The Week in Photography News Read More

The Week in Photography News

November 15-21, 2014: Hear the latest goings-on in the photography world, from product releases to event and campaign announcements and more.

Latest Learning Articles

Introduction to Creating an Album in Lightroom - Part I (Video Tutorial) Read More

Introduction to Creating an Album in Lightroom - Part I (Video Tutorial)

Learn to create an album in the Book Tab of Lightroom that you can publish and present to clients.


Opaque filters for IR shooting

Russ Butner - Portland, OR - Vancouver, WA , Dec 01, 2007; 11:14 a.m.

Hello

I've been using Kodak HIE with a deep red #29 filter with very good results. However, since they are discontinuing it, I will be trying out the Rollie B/W IR film. In an effort to simulate the Kodak look, I think I may have to go with an opaque IR filter. What is the approximate filter factor for the opaque filters?

Thanks Russ


The Watcher (Kodak HIE)

Responses


    1   |   2     Next    Last

Michael Richards , Dec 01, 2007; 12:52 p.m.

A lot depends on your setup, but I'll pass on my experience with B+W 092 (89B equivalent) versus 093 (87C equivalent). The latter is opaque and needs about 2-3 more stops than the former with HIE. If you deal in filter factors, that's about a 4-8 multiple. I'm not sure how it would work out with the Rollei film, but it's probably a good starting point for bracketing. Good luck, and please let us know how it works, if you try it.

Luke Ballard , Dec 01, 2007; 01:34 p.m.

I just started shooting Rollie, I use a Hoya 72R opaque filter. My advice is, d/l the fact sheet on the film and read it well. It will give a lot of info, I am finding filter factors of about 6 to 8 depending on conditions. I was shooting SFX 200, same filter and found that with the filter on, and using my meter inside TTL, if I set it to the perfect exposure, I got exactly a perfect exposure, but SFX is in the low range of IR, and I think my meter is a little more IR sensitive, but this is only with SFX, you won't find same results with Rollie. 6 to 8 stops is what I am finding, but I am bracketing also, still practicing, so as I learn more I will contact you. The Hoya 72R is a great filter by the way, I got EXTREMELY good wood effect and results with SFX, which is only sensitve up to 740nm, Whrereas HIE was up at 900nm. Don't discount SFX, its a pretty good film and with the Hoya, it will give you some good results. Only thing I am working on is trying to reduce grain in final shots so I can enlarge to 11x14, but I am going to have to experiment with developers and such.

Good luck and give the Hoya 72R a try, you can pick one up on ebay for about 45 bucks, and try some SFX 200, you might be impressed!

Luke

Robert Vonk , Dec 01, 2007; 02:33 p.m.

RG715 (715nm) and Hoya 72R (720nm) is the best option. 4-6 stops depending on the IR atmospheric circumstances.

http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/thumbnails.php?album=2

and

http://gallery.fotohuisrovo.nl/thumbnails.php?album=10

You can load and unload in subdue light.

Best regards,

Robert

Luke Ballard , Dec 01, 2007; 03:24 p.m.

HEy RObert,

Just to clarify, you are saying 4-6 stops meaning take the reading TTL without the filter, put the filter on and Increase time by 4-6 stops, or decrease time by 4-6 stops?

I am not meaning this as you are wrong, I just wanted to clarfy what you meant in Stop direction cause im gonna try what you said, I was told 6-8, but I haven't seen my results yet.

Just a clarification. And by stops you arn't stopping the apature down or up, you are using time stops right?

Luke Thanks!

Robert Vonk , Dec 01, 2007; 04:30 p.m.

>> 4-6 stops meaning take the reading TTL without the filter, put the filter on and Increase time by 4-6 stops, or decrease time by 4-6 stops? <<

Exactly. (Or measure with an extended exposure meter so that you can leave your filter on the lens :) )

T-stops and F-stops are giving the same end effect. But of course with the aperture you're regulating also the D.O.F.

Without filter the sensitivity of the Rollei 820/400 is about iso 200-400 depending on the developer. That means with the opaque filter you're working around iso 12-25.

Luke Ballard , Dec 01, 2007; 04:47 p.m.

Ok,

Cool, so actually decreasing the time stops is best, since when the filter is placed on, the meter will want to make a longer exposure due to loss of Visible light, but IR hasn't changed at all, so just derease the time around 4 to 6 stops and you should get a good exposure, and bracket. If you increased the time, you would probably blow out the pic by to much exposure correct? And for sure, yeah doing it with apature, you are for sure playing around with DOF. And having stop changes of 4 to 6 can make a HUGE difference in that. See a big thing I have a problem with is, most ppl adjust thier cameras ISO different from the actual films ISO to get the results, but I can't do that, my camera is new and reads the ISO and I can't change it, so it knows it is shooting 400 ISO film and compensates for that in metering, that I can't change, so I have to compensate in other ways. As far as development, I am using d-76 to start, I am playing with an experiment in dilution for longer times to reduce grain, I read it in an article about D-76 from 2 retired Kodak Chemical Experts. I haven't started yet, but I am going to do one roll with stock as usual, then one roll 1+3 diluted and see if it made a change.

Gosh I have been reading and researching IR so hardcore that my mind is starting to screw with me and confuse the heck out of me from info overload. That is why I was asking about the stop direction, meaning increase time, or decrease time in stops to compensate for the filter and the TTL meter. Unforttunatly I don't have an external meter, however I guess I could use my digital, set it to 400 ISO and use it as my meter, but im not sure about that, cause I am shooting Nikon camera film, and Digital is Canon. To bad I don't have an external meter. Getting one as soon as I can afford it, my friend got one not long ago, was about 250 or 300 bucks, but it was SWEET! And worked like a charm. Well worth it.

Thanks!

Luke

Robert Vonk , Dec 01, 2007; 04:59 p.m.

The latest Rollei developing table:

http://www.fotohuisrovo.nl/documentatie/Development_Rollei%20films.pdf

Always shoot a negative WITHOUT filter so that you can check your development later.

A lot of things are depending on the local atmospheric IR conditions, therefore always do a bracketing in the beginning. Later you know exactly what to do. Also take notice to correct the distance due to the fact IR light has a different breaking index. Correct on the red IR dot on your lens for 800nm.

Regards,

Robert

(Dutch Rollei/Maco distributor) http://www.FotohuisRoVo.nl

Luke Ballard , Dec 01, 2007; 05:21 p.m.

Hey RObert,

I know I am asking a lot of ?'s, sorry, but I am learning a lot. You said, always shoot one negative without the filter on to check your development later.

Can you explain this a bit more, like what you mean by checking the development? So when I shoot that one neg without the filter should I just meter a proper exposure and shoot. What should I expect to see? I haven't done that before..lol..always had the filter on. Honestly, I have been doing development and processing for 20 yrs, but I haven't really got into crazy developers and wild experimentation different mixes and times, and such. I have always gotten great photos with pretty simple development procedures used for 20yrs, but I am learning more and more in this forum about it. Especially since I started with IR. was just curious what you meant about the shooting one without the filter to check development. Oh, and yeah I do correct the focus to my dot, mine is white, I use a 35-70mm 2.8 Nikkor mostly and it has 2 marks, one for 35mm and one for 70mm. I will focus then whereever the lens mark is, I will just dial it back or forth to put it over the 35 ot 70mm mark depending on how much I have zoomed in or out, 35 or 70.

Thanks for taking the time to explain these things, it is really helpful and I am very appreciative!

Luke

Luke Ballard , Dec 01, 2007; 06:51 p.m.

What am I thinking, man my brain is about mush, I know why you said shoot one without, cause it is just black and white film, its just more sensitive to IR, so its just gonna be a regular B&W pic, then you can compare to make sure you developed correctly to the actual filtered shots..geez man I am loosing my mind. Sorry bout that Robert, just wasn't thinking, I think I need to put the books away and stop reading for awhile and let my mind get all the consumed info filtered out and settled in. lol..believe me, I have been reading so much on IR and developing and these threads that I think I am in overload now, asking dumb ?'s..

Thanks a bunch for your help!

Luke


    1   |   2     Next    Last

Back to top

Notify me of Responses