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Verichrome rated at 28 degrees

Andrew Lind , Mar 14, 2010; 05:54 a.m.

Hi I have found a roll of unused Kodak Verichrome which is rated at 28 degrees instead of the ASA rating and i was wondering if any one could tell me its related ASA rating so i can get on and use it?

Responses

Larry Dressler , Mar 14, 2010; 06:28 a.m.

is it 28 DIN not degrees? I believe the old Verichrome was ASA 80 and the Verichrome Pan I know was ASA 125. But 28 Din would make it ASA 500 or so. so If it says degrees I am stumped. Does it have a date on it?

David Bebbington , Mar 14, 2010; 07:16 a.m.

28 degrees relates to the obsolete Scheiner speed system. As Larry says, Verichrome was rated at 80 ASA, which would be 20 DIN. The original ASA speeds contained a 2x safety factor, which would have given Verichrome a box speed of ASA 40. If you plan to shoot on the Verichrome, I would think a good guestimate for the speed would be 16 or 20 ISO/ASA

Kelly Flanigan , Mar 14, 2010; 01:15 p.m.

****Most "found" Verichrome is NOT old Ortho Verichrome from the mid 1950's; it tends to be more modern Verichrome Pan film that is senstitive to red; which was asa 80 or asa 125 depending on its vintage. (WHEN NEW)

On 1952 Verichrome (NOT PAN) roll film was only asa 64; as noted in the 5th edition of "Kodak Films"; going even older to the 1930's it is only equalivalent to our asa of 50 or if older about say 32.

Film that is real old is basically "slower" today since one has decades worth of base fog. Thus if one has early 1950's asa 64 Verichrome (non pan) you will probably have to shoot it at about asa 32 or 25. or 20

Most all the customers I have that say they have Verichrome actually bring in Verichrome Pan; sometimes it is even not that old either it early 1990's stuff that is asa 125.

Verichrome was made for many many decades; saying one has "a roll of Verichrome" is like saying one has a Ford car, Kodak camera, Sears bike; Canon camera, You might have a roll of Verichrome from 70 years ago or one from say 12 years ago to. Thus without any details as to vintage we are all shooting in the dark.

If one has several rolls of the same vintage one can zero in on the "what left" it actually hasas to its real speed today. If I was at Vegas I would bet that you have Verichrome Pan!

Andrew Lind , Mar 14, 2010; 08:52 p.m.

Sorry all the film is dated to have expired in 1943

Kelly Flanigan , Mar 14, 2010; 09:57 p.m.

*WOW*; really old stuff!

An older Kodak data book here copyright 1945 and 1945 in the Kodak Films section has Verichrome roll film and packs as:

Daylight 50 Tungsten 25 for Westin and GE meters..it says to "The daylight value is the same as the ASA Film exposure index".

The "exposure table" under Bright subject and Bright sun yields 1/50 second at F16.

The development times are long; ie D76 at 17 minutes at 20C/86F in atant with intermittent agitation; and 13 minutes in tray with continuous agitation.

If you are darn tooting this is from this era thatn it is ortho film; you can develop it under deep red light safelight.

Roll film that is super ancient can have a super devil of a time with curl sometimes. In extreme cases the leading tape holding the film on the roll backing paper witll come off when one is approaching the first frame. It can be a devil to load too if there is alot of curl.

The reason of courses the "tungsten" speed was only 25 is because this is ortho film; not senstitive to red. A tungsten lamp does not put out much blue; thus the film speed one used was lower; ie 25 instead of 50.

***With a world war 2 speed of asa/Iso50 for daylight; it is probably several stops lower in speed today; thus say 25 or 12 asa/iso OR EVEN SAY 6!. Having MORE exposure gets the image above the base fog; you want to err on the overexposure side of things. This film has a big highlight region thus it is very tolerant of overexposure.

Kelly Flanigan , Mar 14, 2010; 10:44 p.m.

The unexposed edges of a film frame when developed will not be "as clear" as a new piece of film.

The WW2 stuff is basically is already exposed somewhat due to time and temp; gases and background radiation. An unexposed roll when processed that is that old will not have a typical 0.3 say base fog with -3.0 exposure (about none). It basically will be alot higher; maybe 0.8. 1, 1.2 or even 1.5. If it is sheet film one could try a sheet to see what the base fog is.

With a single roll; one is guessing alot. Here I found a bulk loader of mine that was misplaced since a move in the 1970's. It had a bulk roll of plus-x asa 125 in it. Today it is about 2 or 3 stops slower; and that is with 35 year old film stored at room temp. It is so fogged that the film frame numbers and film type are missing; it took about 3 rolls shot to "make out" the plus-x kodak number!.

There is no magic bullet to deconvolve the base fog on old film; some folks dabble with Kodak Anti fog tablets or magical developers. At best they are a weak function of helping. The *good thing* is you have slower film to begin with; thus it does not age as quick as faster stuff.

Since the base fog of the film is higher; todays film speed is less.

It is sort of like you as a piece of film are in a crowded football stadium where there is a hell of alot of background noise. Overexposure or YELLING is required to order a pizza from the pizza guy in the isle far away, With normal talking or exposure your exposure/voice is the same as background noise/base fog and you get no pizza; no image. Overexposure compared to asa 50 means you are rating the film at say 12 or 6 today; ie say 2 or 3 stops more exposure.

Unless one does a test; this "Kentucky windage" is just from all of our past experiences. Your roll too could be have been around moth balls in a dresser and be ruined alot; or been in a fridge and be better than one would expect.

Sometimes with super old roll film one gets the film numbers 1-1-1 2-2-2 etc to show up on the film too; weird; or teh whole roll yields little since somebody already undid the roll and rolled it back and taped it back; or it is too far fogged.

Since the film is already fogged alot; the "dynamic range" of what is left is alot less. Thus one cannot capture a scene anymore with a huge range of fstops; it might be only a handfull of stops or a few stops. It is sort of like the pizza guy in the isle cannot hear your ipod or cell conversation; but can hear your YELLING! :)

Show us some results; whether great or poor. There is not much new old stock films from the 1940's around. Your results or Kentucky windage may help another out too.

Andrew Lind , Mar 15, 2010; 01:08 a.m.

Thank you very much for you help and i will hopefully have the results up soon

Maxim Muir , Mar 29, 2010; 02:10 p.m.

Verichrome Pan was my all time fav 120 roll film. You had to try awfully hard to get a bad neg with it (it was designed, after all with box cameras in mind), and if you exposed it and developed it spot on, it produced some of the most tonally rich, detailed prints I have ever seen or made!
The sheet film version (characteristic wise, not the same emulsion) was Super XX Pan. Same deal-abuse it and get usable results. Expose and develop it spot on-totally incredible. Combine well exposed, correctly developed Super XX 8x10 sheet film, printed on AZO contact paper, developed in an Amidol paper developer, and finished in a gold toner, you had something special to look at my friends. Ah-those were the days.......................

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