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Review of EOS 5D 24-105 / Field comparison with 1Ds and 10D at wedding

Ronan Burke , Sep 26, 2005; 09:15 a.m.

This is my initial review of Canon Eos 5D and 24-105 f4L after 1 weekend and 1 wedding. There seems to be a serious lack of reviews for this camera so I thought I'd share my views after getting mine last week and using it at a wedding on Saturday.

First some background: I currently have a 1Ds (mark 1) and a 10D as a backup. When the 10D failed (err 99) with shutter failure after 20,000 exposures (?140 +vat to repair) I thought about a new backup body but didn't do anything about it. A month later the 1Ds also had a shutter failure: (this time intermittently leaking light or leaving shutter blades half way across the image and no error reported) although it was repaired within a week (?260+vat). The repair centre had bunch of 1Ds's with the same problem which was a bit of a worry. So I realised I needed another full frame body in case something else happened but couldn't justify the depreciation for a 2nd 1Ds. So with great timing the 5D rumours started and the day it was announced I ordered one. To me the main attractions are quality A3 prints and a full frame sensor. I also needed a new standard zoom lens so I ordered the 240195 f4L IS at the same time (the kit price seems reasonable).

Initial impressions out of the box: A lot lighter in hand. Good build quality (seems robust). Vewfinder seems as good as 1Ds. Bright. Much better than 10D. The menus intuitive and very easy to read. Easy to setup. Very similar to 10D. It took 5 mins to get up and running. Pocket guide is a good idea. Strap is an attractive 'mug-me' red. Non-slip bit inside neck part is a good idea.

The optional grip seems well thought out but doesn't seem as good a fit as that on the 10D (slight gap visible). The AA option is great. Playback zoom on grip buttons is a nice idea. The lack of a hand strap is a disappointment. I'm a fan of detachable grips. If I'm off hillwalking or travelling light I can choose to leave the grip behind. But for weddings it's always attached as a large proportion of shots are in portrait mode.

First shots: Power on and image review are instantaneous. Screen is bright and clear. A huge improvement. I set the picture style to neutral and initial images seem slightly soft at 100%: to be expected. Shadow detail seems good.

The BP511s batteries are excellent idea. They're smaller and lighter and last pretty well. The charger is much smaller (than that with the 1Ds) to bring on jobs / trips. Also all those 10D batteries are getting a second life although they do last a LOT less than the included BP511A. The first pair of BP511's in the grip lasted 50 shots before the indicator went onto 1/2 (that's so short I think they may be faulty?). I instantly changed to the BP511A and this has taken 250 and is still showing 100%.

So off I went to the wedding and here are my impressions from the job (using the 5D as a second body):

Focus: With the 24-105 it seems very fast, even in moderate light. Definitely faster than the 28-135. So far I used it only with auto- focus point selection to help flash exposure.

Exposure: Seems very good, but of course it can still be fooled. Overall I'm very happy with it.

Flash: Seems like a much improved version of ETTL. I don't use flash straight on too much: when I have to use it I bounce it off the ceiling when ETTL2 makes no difference.

Speed writing to CF card: Pretty amazing. Being able to shoot 17 raw images in just over 5 seconds seems a little strange. Just for the hell of it I did it for the bride and groom coming back down the ailse. Not too sure I'd use it everyday.

Shutter lag: I'd have to say there is none: or so little it doesn't matter.

Connectivity: USB 2.0 is ok but I'd prefer firewire. It's definitely slower than a firewire CF reader: I'd guess twice as long to download a 4GB card. Video-out is another nice idea.

The lens: The 24-105 is heavy. Seems well made. Some barrel distortion at wide end. New style IS switch which is better than my other lenses. The zoom action seems tight: I expect this will loosen with use. Disappointed that its an "extending" zoom and the associated dust problem. Still, I've just got a "visible dust sensor brush" which I've just used on the 1Ds and it works a dream. IS works really well: I'd have to say that it's better than a 28-135 IS as there wasn't 1 even slightly blurry shot from the job. The hood is loose! It can rotate slightly and cause vignetting at the wide end. I used a quiet moment to use sticky tape to hold it in the right position. Problem sorted.

Image quality from the pair: I'm don't use any form of in-camera sharpening or colour tweaking so I can't comment on any of these. Opening the image Canon Raw and processing it from there results in excellent images for my purposes. Skins are silky smooth: a quality I like from Canon DSLRs. Images definitely need more sharpening than those straight from the 1Ds. For an A3 print I'd generally sharpen a 1Ds image (using CS2's smart sharpen) by 100%, Radius 1. To get the same results from the 5D meant using around 150%,1. However there is so little 'noise' that I don't see this as a problem. Exposure latitude seems excellent. The couple in shade and the background sunny didn't cause any problems: the background is bright but not unnatural. To check my sharpness theory I shot images of a CD box outside with the 1Ds and the 5D, both with an EF50 f1.8 set to F8 (I used CD boxes to see how easy the bar codes are to read). The 1Ds definitly has more detail to start with. I also did the same test at f1.8 to check there was no forward or back focus problem that apparently affected early 10Ds.

Noise: I'd classify this as excellent. I used a mix of ISO 100, 200 and 400 on the day. All images appear smooth and I don't think there'll be any visible noise in the prints for the couples album.

Colour: Not really interested in the in camera colour balance as I shoot everything raw. Still, colour seems fine on cameras monitor. Colour in Canon Raw is what I'd expect: i.e. easily correctable.

Software: I don't like zoom browser and digital camera window as previous versions were "buggy" on both my PCs. So far I haven't had the same problems with either of the new versions apart from swapping from one camera to another: eg from the 5D to the 1Ds: I get a message saying the camera is in use by another application. The Raw processor seems like an improvement on the last version I used (now I generally use Adobe's raw). However, this version is sloooow. I'm sure that Adobe will release the CS2 Raw update for the 5D in the near future.

So what do the prints look like: After I got back from the wedding I did an A3 print and I'm mightly impressed. Colour, tone, noise and detail are all excellent with miminal tweaks required in Canon Raw or CS2.

Misc. likes: Image quality at A3. Build quality. Focus speed. Interchangeable screens: a real plus. Waiting for Ee-D to be in stock in UK. Enough pixels for the real world. Optional grip holds the battery cover inside so you don't loose it. Screen. Exp. latitude. No noise. Improved flash. IS is better than 28-135.

Dislikes: Joystick thingy on back. Mirror lock-up is a pain. Mode dial for TV/AV etc: I prefer the 1 series layout. Images require more sharpening. Not weather proof.

Overall I would give it 9/10 until I factor in the sticker price and then it gets 10/10. Add in the lower depreciation and insurance costs in comparison to a 1Ds and it makes even more sense.

In conclusion: a very worthwhile backup to a 1Ds and much better than a 10D. It even has some advantages over the 1Ds (size, weight, batteries) . I'm off on my annual holiday next week (to Madagascar) and bringing the 5D in preference to the 1Ds. That must be a good enough recommendation?

Anyway, I hope this initial review is of use to some of you.

Responses

Derek Linney , Sep 26, 2005; 09:36 a.m.

Ronan, thanks for a very well written practical field review of the 5D. It really is what its like in the field that counts and you seem to like it.

Giampi . , Sep 26, 2005; 10:13 a.m.

>>There seems to be a serious lack of reviews for this camera<<

That's because no one has it yet. Where did you get yours? Are you in the UK?

David Koens , Sep 26, 2005; 10:19 a.m.

Yes, thanks for the review Ronan. Sounds like a good one.

DK.

Richard Thompson , Sep 26, 2005; 10:19 a.m.

Hi Ronan - nice review.

I got my 5D and 24-105 last week also. A few further points and comments to your review.

- you say MLU is a pain. You can set this to the Custom function, so that you can use C (on the mode dial) to switch MLU on or off.

- You've come from a 1Ds and 10D. If you had come from a 20D, you'd probably like the joystick - once you get used to it, it quicker than buttons.

- You used it as the 'second body' for your weddings. Is that becuase you aren't used to it ? Surely with far superior noise control and slightly higher resolution (and it weighing half as much as a 1Ds), it should be the primary body ?

Im very happy with mine, I've only taken about 250 landscape images over the last few days. Very happy I went with a 5D and not a 1DsMk1. I'd say this is the BEST AVAILABLE camera for travel.

Jim Larson , Sep 26, 2005; 10:35 a.m.

Ronan. . .. nice review.

I understand perfectly why you would use it as a second body on the first couple of jobs. :)

BTW: To what lenses are you comparing that 24-105/4L-IS? Sounds like a 28-105/IS and 50/1.8? I would love to hear more about your experience with the lenses.

FWIW: You state: "I bounce it off the ceiling when ETTL2 makes no difference." . . .um since you are new to ETTL2, you should read up a bit more on how it works. All bounce flash does is disable the distance feedback function of ETTL2. . . .in general ETTL2 is an "averaging" flash with correction factors. This is very different from ETTL in the 10D and 1Ds, which are focus point biased.

Ronan Burke , Sep 26, 2005; 11:23 a.m.

Thanks for the comments / questions.

Yes: I'm in the UK. The pound sign doesn't come out for some reason. I got mine from AJ Purdy: simply because that's where I get all my gear. .

Thanks for the MLU tip: that's fantastic!

I've used a 20D on a job once: I liked it but again didn't like the joystick but I guess I will get used to it. It just feels fiddly.

I'd just like to add that I'd never rely totally on any new bit of kit. Having said that I imagine that I'll continue using the 1Ds in preference to the 5D unless size / weight is a factor. Don't let that put you off though. I think for the money the 5D is truly excellent.

I'm comparing the lens primarily to a 28-135 IS as this is another standard zoom. I've had mine for years (I'd say I've take 50,000 images with it) and if I have to bring one lens anywhere then that's the one. I doubt of its the best at any one area but as an all rounder it's excellent. I imagine that the 24-105 will shortly replace it in my bag as it's definitely sharper and the IS is better.

To check the resolution of the camera vs the 1Ds I used the 50 f1.8 as this is one dead sharp lens at f8. I doubt if the 24-105 is as good but thats like comparing apples and oranges. I also took some images with a 80-200 f2.8L and a 17-40 f4L but I use these wide open so wouldn't base an opionion of the camera based on these.

As regards my comments on ETTL2: my understanding was that the lens feeds info to the camera to help decide on flash output (when the flash is straight on the camera is the same distance from the subject as the flash). However this wont work for bounce flash as the camera doesn't know how far the bounced distance is or how reflective the ceiling is. Having said that I think that the bounced flash exposures were excellent.

Steve Dunn , Sep 26, 2005; 02:20 p.m.

Ronan, thanks for the info! Interesting to read it, even though I'm not in the market for a 5D at all and not planning on buying the 24-105 for another year or two. You should be able to get £ by typing "&pound;" (without the quotes). In general, any special character, including accented letters, "foreign" (from a U.S. perspective) currency, and unusual punctuation, needs to be entered using these sorts of codes, or it won't show up properly here.

WRT E-TTL II, the distance info (which, as you correctly state, is not used when bouncing) is only part of it. E-TTL is heavily biased towards the active AF point; E-TTL II, less so, so even in a bounce situation, the two systems may give different results. I don't shoot weddings, but that's one use in which (theoretically, at least) E-TTL II should have an advantage; it should pay less attention than E-TTL does to the large are of black or white clothing next to the "subject" (which is typically a face) and be less likely to be fooled into an incorrect exposure.

Giampi . , Sep 26, 2005; 05:59 p.m.

Lucky you! None of the stores in Los Angeles have it yet...or anywhere else in the US as far as I can tell.

There will be a 'feeding frenzy' no doubt!

Jim Koral , Sep 26, 2005; 10:05 p.m.

"It took 5 mins to get up and running."

That's a pretty slow start-up time. The 10D is 4 minutes and 58 seconds faster!

Andrew Hinkle , Sep 27, 2005; 12:09 a.m.

The MKIIN is available in the states now, but no one seems to be that interested. Poor little guy...

Richard Thompson , Sep 27, 2005; 06:01 a.m.

Ive posted some samples from the weekend :
5D and 24-105 L IS
cliffs
5D and Tamron 90/2.8
Pebbles
100% crop
crop
5D and 100-400 L IS
Cliff Jumpers
100% crop - AF is spot on. Very happy.
crop here
Another 5d and 100-400 L IS shot
Woods

Jean-Baptiste Queru , Sep 27, 2005; 10:46 a.m.

Thanks for the info. A couple of thoughts:

-I'm jealous - the 5D hasn't made it to the US yet.

-I'm really surprised that you didn't get your 10D repaired, at least in order to be able to sell it - I'm reasonably sure that you can sell it for more than the cost of a CLA + new shutter.

-I guess that your BP511 batteries aren't quite as new as the BP511a you got with the 5D, which would explain why they don't hold charge as well any more. There's certainly a difference between BP511 and BP511a, but not by a factor of 5.

Pank Mehta , Sep 28, 2005; 07:40 a.m.

Folks,

Does anyone have any objections if I point to this discussion in one of the other forums that I use?

Regards

Pank

Ramesh Kumar , Sep 29, 2005; 02:11 p.m.

Hi Ronan, Thanks for the detailed review. I am planning to upgrade from a 10d to 5d and I am waiting for some reviews and your review is really useful. You had mentioned that the 24-105 is sharper than 28-135 and that is expected. Is there a huge difference? Can you tell me if the 28-135 is still good on the 5d compared to putting it on the 10d. I use my 28-135 a lot on 10d and I am planning to use it on the 5d too if that is sharp enough. Thanks Ramesh www.world-of-photos.com

Philip Harle , Oct 09, 2005; 06:04 a.m.

Thanks Ronan for your valuable real-world experience. Slightly worrying that your Canons have been failing, I have never had any problems but I'm not a pro. For anyone looking for more info on the 5D, a comparison with the 20D and links to other related info (including comparison between 24-105L and 28-135IS), see: http://www.virtualtraveller.org/5dv20d/5dv20d.htm:

Mathew Horwood , Jan 03, 2006; 03:29 p.m.

Ronan (wedding photographer Edinburgh?), your review is very interesting, especially as it sounds like our wedding that you used this camera in September. I would like to ask when do you intend to provide us with the photos that we have paid for and you have repeatedly promised to provide us with? You have failed to answer our calls emails etc. so we have no choice but to contact you publicly! I trust you have recovered from your illness.....in Madagascar

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