Great DSLR Under $1000?

1) is the more the lens than the camera

2,3 and 4 Any of the rebel line will give you

40D

There are many choices but you do not list your optical requirements and this will shape the choices. All the DSLR have very good performance up to ISO 400 and most a bit higher (depending on ones definition of excessive noise). Anyways, with the lens requirement (and quality lenses can be quite expensive) it is a bit difficult to give a reasonable answer. I will note that canon and olympus seem to have the best 'cheap' kit lens (canon 17-55 IS - the non IS version is very poor). Nikon's kit lens is also quite reasonable (i do not recall the performance numbers for pentax and I believe Sony's was rather poor).

Take a look at the XSi (450D) - it's a great camera and will allow you to buy at least on good lens within your budget.

I'll pile on and say that the Rebel series is a great step-up camera from what you are using now. IQ is as good as you'll get from a cropped sensor DSLR. The price is within your budget - you even have some choices as to whether you'd rather spend most of it on a camera (the XSi) or spend less there and devote a bit more to lenses and accessories (XTi or XT).

Dan

Ditto in the 40D. Still under $1000 from Amazon even though the rebates have officially ended.

I suggest the Canon XSi. The 40D may not be in your price range.

Note that the "cheap" Canon kit lenses are the 18-55 IS and the original 18-55. The 17-55 IS mentioned above costs about $1,000. Neither kit lens is poor. Both are inexpensive. There seems to be no reason to purchase the original one anymore. The new 18-55 IS has been very favorably reviewed. But since you have a bunch of EOS lenses you might want to try them first. OTOH, you'd be paying only about $100 for the 18-55 IS if you buy it with the XSi, so I'd say get it anyway, sell it if you don't like it. You won't lose any money in doing so as the price alone is about $170.

Canon vs. Nikon? That can be argued either way. But since you have EOS lenses, that should settle the question.

As to remote controls, they would be accessories purchased separately. I prefer the Canon wired over the wireless but again, YMMV.

" I have a bunch of Canon EOS lenses from when I was shooting in film..."

Which lenses do you have? If you're going to need a new lens or two, an XTi would be a reasonable choice within your budget.

You can also look at the Pentax 200d for about $800 with a 18-55mm lens. You can look at the Olympus E-510 with two lenses for $650. then spend another $200-400 on a flash or more lenses. A Nikon D60 with two lenses is $949. (all these prices are from B&H in NYC) I like Cameta Camera because they will also throw in a camera bag, a CF or SD card, lens cleaner, and sometimes an extra battery.

www.bhphotovideo.com http://stores.ebay.com/Cameta-Camera

Rebel XTi + EF-S 18-55IS

Done and done

The 40D is the cat's meow! I'll tell you if you get any of the other bodies you'll have regrets especially since you'll "grow out" of them before you know it. But, it's really the lenses that matters in the end. But the difference between what you'll save between the XTi (say you chose that model) and a 40D is not enough to get a decent lens. Keep saving, saving, saving.........

"the lenses that matters in the end. But the difference between what you'll save between the XTi (say you chose that model) and a 40D is not enough to get a decent lens."

40D $961, XTi $579 on Amazon (body-only). The difference ($382) may not be enough for a "decent" lens, but more or less covers a Tamron 17-50 ($404 on Amazon).

Other possibilities for around $380: Sigma 30/1.4 or Canon 85/1.8.

Id go with what everyone else is saying and plunge for the 40D. I recently sold my Nikon D40 after a year and use a Canon XTi at work, both of which I find very limiting. I bought the 40D last week and am basking in photography heaven. I'd say the thumb wheel itself more than justifies the price jump to a 40D. No more having to look away and hold separate buttons to change f-stop and shutter speed. Trust me, you'll outgrow anything below it fast...real fast.

If you look at the OP's list of desired features... the XSi (and XTi and XT) have every one mentioned. (I take his "Very quick firing" to mean that there is little delay after the shutter is pressed - if you have used a Pro One as he has you'll understand the context.)

Now, if he means "burst rate faster than 3.5 fps," that would be a different story...

Dan

Hey, I'm back! Thanks so much for all of the quick responses, I love it! I'm going to look into all of the suggestions you made immediately and here's some more info for those who asked questions.

I don't really remember what lenses they were, but they were for my Canon EOS Rebel G11. Not sure if that helps. I'd love to continue with something from the Rebel line as long as it will give me the results I want and it seems people are fairly confident it will, so that's definitely promising.

Also, I need a new camera now (within two weeks), so saving isn't an issue. It's either less than $1000 or it isn't. That's why I'm most concerned with getting a camera that will do what I listed as is (ie; with whatever one lens it typically comes with). If it's a camera that isn't usually sold with a lens, then whatever lens you think would be a great starter lens for that particular body is good.

I guess I need to clarify that photography isn't my career. It's something I freelance doing because it's related to my career and makes me enough money to pay the bills while I pursue my career, so in spite of doing a lot of pro work and it being a good chunk of my income, I'm not looking to spend thousands on photography equipment.

I'm also not adanced enough to care about tiny technical details that set one camera/lens apart from another in ways that aren't noticable in function or result to anyone except other advanced photographers.

Basically, if I set two cameras down in front of someone who knows nothing about photography and tell them to take a few pictures with each one, the only things I care about would be the things a person like that would notice right from the start.

I'm good just owning one fast, decent quality, all purpose (in terms of zoom range) lens. Anything I may need creatively later on, I'll worry about later on. For now, I need my new camera to do what my PSPro1 does, just a lot faster and with higher quality at higher resolutions better for print.

As for the noise, no matter the surrounding conditions, if I took a picture with my PSPro1 at anything higher than 100, it looked as if someone took a perfectly good photo and then applied a "grain texture effect" to it five times lol At 400, forget it, it looked like someone drew the picture on sandpaper.

At first I thought I was doing something terribly wrong, but after days of browsing the net and talking to other photographers who own one in addition to their DSLRs, everyone was in agreement that the PSPro1's noise level above 100 is particularly unacceptable by any standard. After seeing what it does and what some other cameras do at the same ISOs, I'm sure any of the suggestions here will be a vast improvement lol

I hope that's helped to clear up a few things about what I'm looking for. I'm off to look up some of the models you ladies/gents suggested but I shall return!

Oh, quick firing! I'm looking for both in that sense, sorry I didn't clarify that too.

I do mean one that doesn't have that insane shutter lag that the PSPro1 has, but after using a variety of DSLRs, that seems to be something that's resolved in better cameras anyway for the most part. I was more so referring to burst rate since, particularly for fashion photography, I need to be able to take consecutive pictures quickly (which I poorly described as snap snap snap lol).

adanced = advanced (sorry)

Wow, I'm not doing too well here, I cut off the other half of that last message. The rest said that I'm not sure how to tell you in specs what I consider to be a fast enough burst rate for my needs, so the best I can do is say that if I'm hitting the shutter button at the same tempo that a pocket watch ticks and the camera can't keep up with me, it's too slow. Rather, that's as slow as I'd go.

For the word "great" just remoove the character "D" from your DSLR and let this be only "SLR"....!

Like others suggested, I'd go to B&H and have look around. I'f you're happy with canons and have cannon lens', then stay with cannon. However it looks like there are lots of great cameras under a grand.

http://photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00QHGd

1. Slow shutter speed is due to low light. If there is more light the camera will give you a faster shutter speed. Another way is to increase your ISO sensitivity and open your lens' aperture wider. Wider aperture = wider opening = more light getting in = faster shutter speed. 2. The camere doesn't snap when you want it to snap = shutter lag, DSLRs have very minimal shutter lag, I'd say unnoticeable. So the camera would take the picture instantly when you press the shutter. 3. Excessive noise? please go here to compare the Pro1's and EOS XTi/400D's noise levels http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/powershot_pro1-review/index.shtml - http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/digital_rebel_xti-review/index.shtml - just scroll down to the noise level comparision. As you can see a DSLR has much better noise performance than a P&S. 4. Looking at the review of the Pro1, I noticed that it had a 28-200mm equivalent to 35mm zoom lens. So you'd need to consider what lens to get to match that of your Pro1. Anyways, after all that being said. The EOS Rebel XTi/400D plus the EF-S 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS and EF-S 55-250 f/4-5.6 IS should be adequate for your need now and also within your budget. Good luck

I agree with the responses to go to a camera store and try them in hand.

I just bought a Canon XSi & 18-55mm IS & 50mm f/1.8. I am extremely happy with the quality of my images from ISO 100-1600.

You can buy the camera and lenses & memory cards & extra battery for $1000.

I shoot the Mark III and was looking for a small camera, found the XSI, am still positively surprised and love every minute with it. I never shot the kit lens, but being spoiled i'm happy i never did. As there's always a compromise: i suggest either some prime lenses from ebay or to save your money (or sell some unwanted lenses) for a nice used 24-105. The zoom will do a lot for you and the image quality is outstanding (it's a bit expensive). As for fixed lenses i suggest a 24/2.8 and a 50/1.4, both great lenses and not too prohibitive and you might get lucky with a refurbished or an ebay offer. As for lowlight shooting, i do prefer the fixed lenses for quick AF as they have to move less glass around. best, Mark

>>> I agree with the responses to go to a camera store and try them in hand.

Excellent advice. That's what I did and walked out with the XSi for it's lighter weight. And bought a Tamron 17-50 f/2.8.

A great combo for shooting on the street.

Canon 20D used. Excellent performance and value.

Hi,

I think your answer will depend a lot on what eos lenses you own. I think there are answers to your request but they will involve compromises and you will have to decide which ones. I'm just going to refer to canon cameras because that's what I know (there might be other better options).

Rebel 450d - will have very good high iso performance and come with an okay kit lens for $800. I'm guessing you can even use this at iso 1600 and get decent quality. While the kit lens has gotten very good reviews and has image stabilization I don't think this will help you much if you're taking photos of moving people indoors. For that you could purchase for around $80 the canon 50 f/1.8. This camera however will only take 3 frames per second and that's not very fast (I've tried to use this frame rate for action but its hit and miss if you get the crucial instant).

Older rebels - 350d, 400d, etc... These are cheaper versions of the 450d which have most of the same (relevant) features but will come with a lower end kit lens (no image stabilization) and more importantly (for you) less impressive high-iso performance.

40d - A great camera in many ways but at $960 for just the body its bumping into your price cap. The canon "plastic fantasic" 50 mm f/1.8 lens again comes to the rescue since even with the body it will just be a little over a thousand. This camera can take 6.5 frames per second and that's _very_ fast (or at least it feels that way to me). Its high iso performance is as good, if not better than, the 450d.

My recommendation would be to go to a store and compare the shutter fire times of the 450d and the 40d. If the 450d seems fast enough then you could go with that but if not I think you can still squeeze in the 40d if you get the cheap 50mm lens. If you own an eos lens with a large aperture (f/2.8 or less) then you might be able to use that instead of the 50mm.

Incidentally the 50mm lens is a bit telephoto on those bodies (same effect as 80 mm on film camera) but for what you're doing that sounds like a bonus. It is, moreover, a good portrait lens. Don't make the mistake of assuming image stabilizing lenses like the kits lens will work for you indoors. Moreover to stop subject motion indoor I think a fixed length lens is your best (and cheapest) bet. I don't know of a zoom with a larger aperture than f/2.8 and indoors that will only stop motion at very high iso (depending on the lighting of course).

As a disclaimer I own little of the equipment I've discussed above :-). I do own a rebel xt (350d) and a canon 5d and I've used a 40d for a week (enough to be very impressed with it) but most of my info above is extrapolating from my own reading.

Good luck

Oh another thing you should remember is fast and accurate low light auto-focus which I think is another area where the 40d trumps the 450d (and many other cameras). If you want to snap at people without asking them to hold still this will be important.

Funny how lots of folks assume that _everyone_ needs the 40D, or full frame, or a 1-series... or whatever _they_ own.

(I actually read a thread recently in which people were discussing _which_ 1-series body is the best one for taking photos of the kids and family! Suggestions that something less expensive, smaller, lighter just might work for this purpose were met with derision...)

I think our OP is making in abundantly clear that he is almost exactly the type of buyer for whom the d-Rebel series is perfect. He isn't concerned with all the fine points of IQ and so forth, he really does have only $1000 for the whole shebang, he is very specific about what he wants and his list is entirely satisfied by something in the XT,XTi, XSi range.

An XSi with the image stabilized kit lens would likely be just what he needs for now.

Dan

*Disclaimer* These are my personal views strictly based on my experience.

I don't own the 40D. I do however own the XTi. I can tell you after 4 months with it (only two of which I have had auto-focus because the mirror pin wore out already), I really wish I had spent the extra couple hundred dollars on the 40D. After really learning the advantages to an SLR, I only long for what the 40D could mean to my action shots and low-light situations. As far as your specs it handles all nicely except price, and I think you can even find that fairly easily online. Trust me, I listened to someone else and bought the rebel. While I love it simple because it broadened my capabilities over my compact Kodak, If it's action you seek and you want a camera that can take a bit of abuse go with the 40D. While the XTi is a fantastic consumer camera, it just doesn't measure up for anyone more than a weekend hobbiest.

This doesn't meat your specs as far as price range but for anyone else reading this in search of similar capabilities, I would actually consider a Nikon D300. Had I not already spent the majority of my money in Canon glass (I am a new professional, meaning I am a starving artist), I would be instead saving my pennies for this camera. It's price is slightly more than the 40D but less than the 5D and it is superior to both by a notable amount. I get to use the D200 (the predecessor to D300) for work and have fallen in love with it. For low light, and at this price range, the D300 is currently unrivaled as it's High ISO capabilities produce better quality images at 3200 ISO than at least the XTi does at 800 ISO.

An additional feature not seen in other price comparable models is the 3D tracking feature (bear with me as I don't know the proper terminology). This is fantastic for action as the focus reads the color you have focused on and stays focused to that area through out it's entire array of focus points. I can think of numerous reasons to use this but bird work and sports comes to mind immediately.The only drawback is if your subject is the same color as the background.

I might also mention after having another look at your post, You can get all the features you mentioned loving about your current camera in any of the models I mentioned and a whole lot more I am sure you'll be thrilled with. I would also recommend, when your budget allows, a speedlight or ring flash. Ring flash is great for fashion so I've read, heard and seen displayed.

One more thing to consider is perhaps going to the library or a local book store and browsing a few photography books relating to your specific interests. Then find our what the authors suggest are mandatory features and very highly desirable features to have in a body for that particular field. Then you can start to shop having the added advantage of knowing exactly what you need in your camera.

You can get Casio EX-F1. Extremely responsive camera with long zoom (but still sharp) lens. Picture quality is excellent with RAW shooting (at least as per luminous landscape review). It also has some special modes in which you can shoot upto even 60 fps, however special modes are avaialble only with JPEG shooting which may not provide excellent quality. (However, the jpeg files are still good for reportage purpose)

>>> He isn't concerned with all the fine points of IQ and so forth,

Actually, I think the XSi holds up that end of the deal pretty well (except for perhaps direct ISO 3200).

Where the (for me slight) sacrifices are, is frames pers second, AF capability, build, etc. The smaller physical size and lighter weight more than made up for those small benefits that don't affect me in the slightest doing street photography.

You should probably skip the EOS 1000D (Rebel XS) as it doesn't offer IR remote release. Most D-SLRs, even from a few years ago offer excellent ISO 400 and a very usable ISO 800. Even ISO 1600 isn't something to fear on most but good exposure at capture time is key.

To the poster recommending a D200 or D300--the original poster pretty clearly said < $1000, and I think he would like a lens or two to mount on the body too.

To the poster who 'wore out' their new Rebel in two months--how many pictures did you take during that span? It is safe to say that most people do not wear out any D-SLRs in such a short period.

With your budget you will need to select your glass very carefully. I suggest looking over your existing shots (the focal length is recorded in the EXIF, consider ExposurePlot to analyze) to determine the actual focal length range you need. If you try to buy a single lens that will cover the 28-200 range offered by your existing camera, it will be rather expensive ($300-500) and be rather slow, particularly at the longer end of the zoom range. Generally-speaking, the faster glass will have a much more moderate focal length range, and you'll be expected to change lenses.

Let us know details about your existing EOS lenses. It seems likely to me that combining what you have from a film kit with a new 18-55 kit lens for wide angle would probably be serviceable if not stellar.

As for rapid shooting, just about any D-SLR from any maker can rip off ~3 or more images in a second with virtually no shutter lag once focused. If you are including focusing time, then the amount of light you're shooting in and the lens you are using will matter. You'll have a tough getting >3 frames/sec with your stated budget--you need a Canon 30D/40D or Nikon D200/D300 or better for that. And those expensive bodies will also need good glass for fast autofocus in low light.

Heh.

Personally, I would find it hard to justify a 40D today.

It seems to me that the *image quality* of the dRebels and the X0D's is a function of *release date*. In terms of image quality, all the recent cameras are similar, but the XSi is marginally better than the 40D, which in turn is marginally better than the 400D, which is in turn marginally better than the 30D. So what I am saying is that the XSi has superior image quality to the 30D. . .but again, it is pretty hard to discern the difference since all the cameras are similar 12mp XSi images are really not that superior to 8mp images from the 30D.

In terms of *features*, that is also a function of release date, although the X0D's tend to be better. The primary advantage of the 40D is the FPS (Frames per second) and buffer size (how many pictures it can take before it slows down to do a write to the card). The XSi has spot metering and 9 point AF. Dang. . .that's pretty sweet! Both the XSi and 40D have live view. Both have nice big screens in the back.

If I was buying today. . .my choice would be one of *ergonomics* and *cost*. For many, the 40D just "feels better". That is important. The back wheel on the 40D is part of "just feels better". Also, the 40D will balance better with large lenses. That is often important.

For *ME*, the 40D feels better and I sometimes have cash burning holes in my pockets. I have a 40D. The other half has a 400D. The 40D was simply too big for her. I have shot both cameras side by side. The images are virtually identical. Differences are definately more attributable to the *lenses* being used. Both are quite usable from a feature perspective. The lack of the rear wheel on the 400D is a *non-issue* for standard tourist and home applications.

A good friend just got a XSi. That is a nice camera. Many features that are on the 40D appear on that camera. I shot maybe 40-100 frames on it. It also does quite nicely.

BTW: The ISO3200 on the 40D: Isn't that simply a one stop "software push" of ISO1600? I do not believe (could be wrong) that the gain on the sensor is actually changed for that setting. Therefore, an ISO 1600 image shot with +1 EC, but pulled back one stop in PShop would yield and identical result to an ISO 3200 shot out of the camera.

Thanks everyone! When I'm in the city, I do stop into B&H before buying, but I don't actually live near there so being on a bit of a deadline with a few things, I wanted to get as much information as I could before going there in the event that I may have to order a camera without doing any hands-on tests. I've been looking at all of the cameras you each suggested and I'm certain that any one of them will be an upgrade from my Pro1. I'll let you all know what camera I choose and how I like it after I've used it for a while and thanks again!

40D. I paid under $700 for mine with a live.com ebay paypal discount. been using it almost a month. the Canon rebates are gone, but I just checked and the live.com discount is currently 25%, it fluctuates. Tom

Wow, lot's of people really want you to buy a digital Rebel of some sort.

OP offered some info in his original post and has revised his info in several ways since, that has been overlooked in more than one response:

1. He already has some lenses. What they are is still unknown. (Might it pay to just take a look?)

2. At least some of his shooting is on a semi-pro level.

3. He's raised his budget above $1000, if necessary.

4. He wants both high frame rate and short shutter lag.

So, taking that all into consideration, I have to recommend the 40D.

1. Regarding lenses....

Depending upon what lenses you already have, get just the body only ($970 at B&H). Or, if needed, for a bit over your original budget get it with one of the two kit lenses offered: 17-85 or 28-135, both with IS.

Note: Due to the 1.6X crop sensor factor, the 17-85 ($1546 w/40D at B&H) would give you a range roughly equal to a 28-135 on your old film camera. The 28-135 would act like a 45-215 zoom would have on film ($1200 w/40D at B&H).

2. Regarding pro use, the 40D is rated for 100,000 shutter actuations and is made with magnesium top cover, has improved weather/dust sealing and other "durability" upgrades over the Rebel series. It's also got faster auto focus than most of the D-Rebels, interchangeable focus screens and other somewhat more pro-oriented features.

3. 40D with the 28-135 for $1200 is probably the best overall value. You could sell the lens for $300 on Craigslist and have $900 in the camera, if you have other lenses to use instead. The 28-135 is priced over $400 bought separately, I believe.

4. 40D offers 6.5 fps. Not sure what the various Rebels offer, but they aren't as fast.

In the end, your final decision might be really easy. Just pick up and handle each camera, to see which one feels most comfortable to you. I find the xxD series' larger body is more comfortable for me than the D-Rebels, and I prefer the controls as well. For example, when shooting in M, I don't like having to press a button to switch back and forth between adjusting the shutter and the aperture. I prefer the two dial setup of the xxD cameras, and find it a lot faster to operate. Then there's the plastic vs. metal question. But, some prefer the smaller body and lighter weight of the D-Rebels, and that's cool too.

Don't forget about buying some memory cards, lens hood, a card reader and perhaps an extra battery or two.

"4. He wants both high frame rate and short shutter lag."

You probably missed it in all the previous message, but the OP clarified that he did NOT mean high frame rates. He meant a camera with minimal shutter lag when the shutter button is released. "I do mean one that doesn't have that insane shutter lag that the PSPro1 has, but after using a variety of DSLRs, that seems to be something that's resolved in better cameras anyway for the most part." He goes on to mention that he needs fast enough frame rates for some fashion photography. (His current Pro1, like many P&S cameras, has a significant delay.)

He also wrote: "Basically, if I set two cameras down in front of someone who knows nothing about photography and tell them to take a few pictures with each one, the only things I care about would be the things a person like that would notice right from the start."

XSi burst rate is 3.5 fps.

I have to say that for most people in our OP's situation getting a crop sensor body the 18-135mm lens is most likely the wrong choice. That was often an ideal general zoom on 35mm film SLRs and such a focal length range could be quite useful on a full frame DSLR - though most get different lenses these days. But on a crop sensor body the 28-135 provides essentially no wide angle coverage due to the smaller sensor. The equivalent focal length range is best approximated by the EFS 17-85mm lens, though I would not necessarily recommend it for other reasons. Basically a zoom that starts in the 16mm, 17mm, or 18mm range it a much more typical choice.

Again, there is nothing in his list of requirements that isn't satisfied by the XSi, and in some of his other follow-up messages he makes it clear that he isn't all that concerned with

This all really describes the target market - and a very appropriate one it is - of the Rebel series.

Dan

I wrote: "the 18-135mm lens is most likely the wrong choice."

Yes. It doesn't exist.

I meant 28-135...

Ah Ha, now is my chance to tell everybody how much I am enjoying my new 40D. My XT is still sitting on my desk with the body cap on. My intentions were to use them both. The 40D cost me $899 at BuyDig, free shipping, and 4 bus. days to get here from the date I ordered it. While maybe not a "pro" camera, it more than fits my needs. The burst rate, quick focus, the custom functions, bright viewfinder, (did I say BRIGHT viewfinder?) All make it such a better camera. I will buy the grip for it though 'cause my paws still hit buttons unintentionally. I looked at the XSi in a store and the thing was so tiny. Also it felt even less sturdy than my XT. I have almost 10,000 shots taken on the XT, some are rather good I might add! I was out on a friend's boat this evening. Took what I thought would be some really poor shots of some Canada geese. They all came out focused even in the dim light at ISO 400 F/2.8 and, get this, no noise! My point; get the 40D and 6 months from now, you still will enjoy it. The Rebels will have you looking for something better by then. Steve