50D

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/756/fullspecsuu0.jpg

Does full frame 18 MP 10 fps 51200 ISO sensor based IS wireless link sound right?

15MP, 6.3 fps. 920000 pixel 3" LCD

Vibration reduction built into BODY if the machine translation can be believed (this would be pretty surprising!)

If this is true spec...it's pretty impressive.

The 40D only came out 9/2007! I recall only one Canon DSLR with a 1 year lifespan: EOS D60 was replaced by EOS 10D. So possible. Body IS sounds pretty iffy...

I agree. Body based IS would be a huge surprise. I suspect that something is being lost (or added) in translation.

Yeah don't think Canon wants to have IS body.

That's a pity, because I do!

try this:

(link)

Google translation:

EOS 50D 高画质 High-definition

采用佳能自主开发生产的CMOS图像感应器，实现了约1510万有效像素的高画质。 Canon developed and produced independently by the CMOS image sensor, has about 15.1 million effective pixel high-definition.

配备佳能新开发的DIGIC 4数字影像处理器，再现细腻、自然的色彩！ Equipped with newly developed Canon DIGIC 4 digital video processor, reproduce delicate, natural color!

镜头内置防抖功能，降低因手抖造成的影像模糊，带来更多拍摄乐趣！ Anti-Shake feature built-in camera, due to lower Shoudou the fuzzy images, taken more fun!

低通滤镜前采用氟涂层有效减少灰尘粘附，佳能特有的感应器除尘对策 Low-pass filter used before the fluorine coating effectively reduce dust adhesion, Canon unique sensor dust Measures

高性能 High Performance

拥有约1510万有效像素、约6.3张/秒的高速连拍性能。 Has about 15.1 million effective pixels, about 6.3 / s high-speed Continuous Performance. 在实现高速连拍的同时，保证高分辨率，并在瞬间完成高精度对焦！ In high-speed shot at the same time, ensure that high-resolution, high precision and focus in a snap!

配备高精度35区测光感应器，可根据拍摄环境，通过4种测光模式，掌握光线的微妙差异，拍摄更加精彩的影像。 35 meter area equipped with high-precision sensors that can be taken in accordance with the environment, through the four kinds of segment, master the subtle differences in lighting, shooting more exciting image.

性能卓越的9点宽区十字型自动对焦（AF）系统。 9:00 outstanding performance of the Cross-wide area AF (AF) system.

操控性人性化操控，轻松拍摄心中所想！ Manipulation of human manipulation, which would easily take heart!

采用全新92万点VGA 3.0英寸液晶监视器，抑制反射，防污痕防刮擦，即使在明亮的光线下也可轻松浏览。 With a new 920,000 points VGA 3.0-inch LCD monitor, inhibiting reflection, pollution prevention scratch marks, even in bright light, may also easy to navigate.

在拍摄过程中，可直观的在液晶监视器上调整拍摄设置，简单方便 In the course of filming, intuitive in the LCD monitor on the adjustment of shooting settings, easy and convenient

通过液晶监视器取景拍摄的“实时显示拍摄”功能。 LCD monitors through the viewfinder filming of "real-time display filming" feature.

坚固的镁合金机身、快门使用寿命达10万次。 Rugged magnesium alloy body, shutter life of 10 million.

丰富的功能拍摄的【乐趣】变为【愉悦】 Enrich the functions of shooting into the [fun] [good]

可以根据被摄体选择相应的拍摄效果的“照片风格”功能 Pi Sheti can select the appropriate effect of the shooting "style photos" feature

可以根据被摄体的亮度自动调节亮度/反差的“自动亮度优化”功能。 Pi Sheti can automatically adjust the brightness of brightness / contrast between the "automatic brightness optimization" feature.

将您常用的功能注册到我的菜单，可迅速找到 You will be registered to the common features of the menu, I can quickly find

提高拍摄灵活性、辅助拍摄的各种配件 Improve the flexibility of shooting, supporting the various shooting accessories

包括Digital Photo Professional在内的丰富软件 Including the Digital Photo Professional software, the rich

This does sound believable. Over in some other forums few canon dealers have been quoted as having tried their hands on a new 15MP camera in a recent canon meeting in Hawaii.

However, beyond 15MP, I don't see any difference in specs from 40D (if we leave the question of IS aside). It is a relief to know that the camera is pict-bridge compatible (what would I do without it!)

According to Shun (Nikon forum moderator), who can read chinese, the anti shake feature is still in the lens, despite the Google machine translation saying that it's in the body. That is somewhat more believable.

If it had body based IS, my order would have been in on the day or release. As it is, it's very nice, but I doubt that I'll feel the need to upgrade from a 40D.

It does have ISO 6400 and 12800 I think (via custom functions), but obviously if it does we;ll have to wait and see how the image quality holds up.

OK - that makes more sense. These translators only give a vague impression of what is going on. Note the “shutter life of 1 million” mentioned above! I guessing that’s really 100K.

Oops that's 10 million.

The specs would have been perfect for me if it has body IS. But I guess It wont have a Body IS, Cause having a Body IS on a Canon body this year, is simply too good to be true. Perhaps , maybe 3 years from now, or when Nikon finally release a dslr body with IS.

I too, dont think it is a worthy upgrade for those who own a 40d. I dont find it compelling enough, based on the specs, to buy it.

So, this would be a replacement to the 40D. Which means...

and was called the EOS 5D Mk II

If it had body based IS, my order would have been in on the day or release. As it is, it's very nice, but I doubt that I'll feel the need to upgrade from a 40D.

Maybe someone at Canon should take that comment to heart?

I don't understand the in lens vs. in body mentality from the perspective of Canon (or Nikon). Why can't there be in body IS that just turns off when an IS lens is attached? Or perhaps the two could even be engineered to cooperate for improved stability? Either way I would still pay for IS on the telephotos it has already been added to because the stabilized viewfinder is worth it.

Ah...I'm going off topic here. Sorry :-)

Canon presumably don't want to kill their sales of IS lenses, or to "follow the lead" of lesser companies. Never underestimate the power of NIH (Not Invented Here) in the corporate world.

You'd have to pay for IS in telephotos anyway, since they do not offer non-IS versions. In fact the 70-200 zooms are currently the only lenses in the entire lineup on which you have the choice of IS or non-IS (since the non-IS version of the 300/4L is no longer offered). Maybe you can still get the EF-S 18-55 kit lens in a non-IS version too, but the price difference there is small.

I've been saying for a year now that I want IS in the body (as well as in the lens). I think a lot of people are saying the same things. I'm sure Canon is aware of the sentiment, but I assume they won't do much about it until they feel that they have to. The very best thing that could happen would be if Nikon brought out a body with image stabilization. That would probably do a lot more to push Canon towards offering body based IS than requests from consumers.

Bob Atkins forwarded me the link to Canon China earlier. This sentence "镜头内置防抖功能" in what Mike S. quotes above specifies that the vibration prevention (IS) capability is inside the lens. Unfortunately, that original page is no longer accessable.

They also mentioned a fluoride layer on the low-pass filter to prevent dust from sticking.

Given that information is directly from a Canon (China) web site, I suppose the official announcement is just days away.

is it possible that they can add a body based digital image stabilization (like what's used on some digital camcorders) where it sort of automatically crops or uses extra sensor area to maintain a still frame within a larger detected frame? This seems like more of a possibility with the evolution of live view where you actually have the sensor continually picking up information. Of course, they'd have to make it play nice with IS lenses (which use optical image stabilization instead of digital), maybe by turning off the digital IS.

Either way, I wouldn't read too much into this translation, but I'm excited since the 50D is my next planned upgrade. The sooner the better!

From http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_50D.html

Annouced on 26th Aug (Start sellling in late Sept) 15.10 MP 3.0' VGA monitor, 6.3FPS, 9 point AF, LV, improved dust-removal system(or improved LV as well) Body only:150000 Yen, With 17 - 65 85 200000 Yen, With 18-200 220000 Yen, 18-200 lens 80000 Yen. Digic IV will be used in the upcoming IXUS but not on 50D.

This is what I got from a Taiwan website, claimed copying from the China Canon site that leaked the infomation, and my translation

CMOS影像感應器尺寸 22.3x14.9mm, 1.6X 焦長轉換, 有效像素 約 1510萬像素, 長寬比 3:2 > CMOS sensor 22.3X14.9mm, 1.6X chop factor, 1510 effective no of pixel, aspect ratio 3:2

DIGIC 4 影像處理引擎, 14 Bit A/D 轉換器 > Digic 4 processing engine, 14bit A/D converter

除塵方式：進化的自動除塵裝置, 自動、手動、軟體添加除塵數據 > Advanced dust removal system: automatic, manual and via software

紀錄成像 -- > Image recording 大：約 1510萬像素（4752 x 3168）> Large resolution 中：約 800萬像素（3456 x 2304）> Medium resolution 小：約 370萬像素（2352 x 1568）> Small resolution RAW：約1510萬像素（4752 x 3168）> RAW resolution 支援 sRAW1：約710萬像素 （3267 x 2178）> sRAW1 resolution 支援 sRAW2：約380萬像素 （2376 x 1584） > sRAW2 resolution 可以同時記錄 RAW+JPEG > Can record RAW+JPEG at the same time

自動對焦點 9（全部為十字型） > 9 AF points, all cross type

測光範圍 EV -0.5 - 18（23°C/73°F、ISO 100） > Metering range EV-0.5 - 18

對焦模式 單次自動對焦、人工智慧伺服自動對焦、 人工智慧自動對焦、手動對焦（MF） > AF mode - Single shot, AI servo, AI focus, Manual

可以進行自動對焦微調 > with AF micro-adjustment feature

測光模式 35區TTL全開光圈測光 > 35 areas TTL metering, Metering modes: ‧ 評價測光（可與任何自動對焦點聯動）> Evaluative metering, link to AF point ‧ 局部測光（取景器中央約9%的面積）> Partial metering 9% ‧ 點測光（取景器中央約3.8%的面積）> Spot metering 3.8% ‧ 中央重點平均測光 > Centre weighted average

ISO, 基本拍攝區模式：在ISO 100-1600之間自動設置 > Basic mode ISO100-1600 創意拍攝區模式：ISO 100 - 3200（以1/3級為增量）、自動，ISO感光度可以擴展到ISO 6400或ISO 12800 > Creative Mode ISO 100-3200, can boost up to 6400 and 12800

快門速度： 1/8000秒至30秒、B門 閃光同步速度1/250秒 > Shutter speed 30s-1/8000s, and B. Flash sync 1/250s

連拍速度-- > Continuous shooting speed 高速：最大約 6.3張/秒 > Fast - 6.3fps 低速：最大約 3張/秒 > Slow - 3fps

最大連拍數量-- > Buffer size （高速連拍） JPEG大/優：約60張(約90張) > JPEG Large/Medium - 60/90 RAW：約16張(約16張) > RAW - 16 RAW+JPEG大/優：約10張(約10張) > RAW+JPEG - 10

LiveView顯示拍攝-- > Live View Mode 對焦 快速模式（相位差檢測）> Live view mode 1 via phase detection AF 實時模式、實時臉部優先模式（反差檢測）- > Live view mode 2 via contrast detection, with face detection capability

視野率 垂直/水平方向約95% 放大倍率 約 0.95倍 > Viewfinder 95% coverage, 0.95X magnification

LCD螢幕尺寸和點數-- > LCD Screen 3英寸，約 92萬點（VGA）視野率 約100% > 3" 920,000pixel LCD, 100% coverage

儲存媒體：I或II型CF卡、UDMA兼容 > Support CF 1&II, support UDMA 支援 HDMI mini OUT端子 C型 > Support HDMI, type C output socket

使用電池BP-511A, 兼容電池 電池BP-511A、BP-514、BP-511或BP-512 > Support battery BP-511A, compatible with BP-511A、BP-514、BP-511or BP-512

支援無線文件傳輸器 WFT-E3 > Support Wireless Transmitter WFT-E3

尺寸（寬x高x厚） 145.5x107.8x73.5mm > Size 重量 約730克（僅機身）> Weight (body only)

I think it is real. Hope the above helps. May see the formal announcement on 26 August.

This is what I got from a Taiwan website, claimed copying from the China Canon site that leaked the infomation, and my translation

CMOS影像感應器尺寸 22.3x14.9mm, 1.6X 焦長轉換, 有效像素 約 1510萬像素, 長寬比 3:2 > CMOS sensor 22.3X14.9mm, 1.6X chop factor, 1510 effective no of pixel, aspect ratio 3:2

DIGIC 4 影像處理引擎, 14 Bit A/D 轉換器 > Digic 4 processing engine, 14bit A/D converter

除塵方式：進化的自動除塵裝置, 自動、手動、軟體添加除塵數據 > Advanced dust removal system: automatic, manual and via software

紀錄成像 -- > Image recording

大：約 1510萬像素（4752 x 3168）> Large resolution

中：約 800萬像素（3456 x 2304）> Medium resolution

小：約 370萬像素（2352 x 1568）> Small resolution

RAW：約1510萬像素（4752 x 3168）> RAW resolution

支援 sRAW1：約710萬像素 （3267 x 2178）> sRAW1 resolution

支援 sRAW2：約380萬像素 （2376 x 1584） > sRAW2 resolution

可以同時記錄 RAW+JPEG > Can record RAW+JPEG at the same time

自動對焦點 9（全部為十字型） > 9 AF points, all cross type

測光範圍 EV -0.5 - 18（23°C/73°F、ISO 100） > Metering range EV-0.5 - 18

對焦模式 單次自動對焦、人工智慧伺服自動對焦、 人工智慧自動對焦、手動對焦（MF） > AF mode - Single shot, AI servo, AI focus, Manual

可以進行自動對焦微調 > with AF micro-adjustment feature

測光模式 35區TTL全開光圈測光 > 35 areas TTL metering, Metering modes:

‧ 評價測光（可與任何自動對焦點聯動）> Evaluative metering, link to AF point

‧ 局部測光（取景器中央約9%的面積）> Partial metering 9%

‧ 點測光（取景器中央約3.8%的面積）> Spot metering 3.8%

‧ 中央重點平均測光 > Centre weighted average

ISO, 基本拍攝區模式：在ISO 100-1600之間自動設置 > Basic mode ISO100-1600

創意拍攝區模式：ISO 100 - 3200（以1/3級為增量）、自動，ISO感光度可以擴展到ISO 6400或ISO 12800 > Creative Mode ISO 100-3200, can boost up to 6400 and 12800

快門速度： 1/8000秒至30秒、B門 閃光同步速度1/250秒 > Shutter speed 30s-1/8000s, and B. Flash sync 1/250s

連拍速度-- > Continuous shooting speed

高速：最大約 6.3張/秒 > Fast - 6.3fps

低速：最大約 3張/秒 > Slow - 3fps

最大連拍數量-- > Buffer size

（高速連拍） JPEG大/優：約60張(約90張) > JPEG Large/Medium - 60/90

RAW：約16張(約16張) > RAW - 16

RAW+JPEG大/優：約10張(約10張) > RAW+JPEG - 10

LiveView顯示拍攝-- > Live View Mode

對焦 快速模式（相位差檢測）> Live view mode 1 via phase detection AF

實時模式、實時臉部優先模式（反差檢測）- > Live view mode 2 via contrast detection, with face detection capability

視野率 垂直/水平方向約95% 放大倍率 約 0.95倍 > Viewfinder 95% coverage, 0.95X magnification

LCD螢幕尺寸和點數-- > LCD Screen

3英寸，約 92萬點（VGA）視野率 約100% > 3" 920,000pixel LCD, 100% coverage

儲存媒體：I或II型CF卡、UDMA兼容 > Support CF 1&II, support UDMA

支援 HDMI mini OUT端子 C型 > Support HDMI, type C output socket

使用電池BP-511A, 兼容電池 電池BP-511A、BP-514、BP-511或BP-512 > Support battery BP-511A, compatible with BP- 511A、BP-514、BP-511or BP-512

支援無線文件傳輸器 WFT-E3 > Support Wireless Transmitter WFT-E3

尺寸（寬x高x厚） 145.5x107.8x73.5mm > Size

重量 約730克（僅機身）> Weight (body only)

I think it is real. Hope the above helps. May see the formal announcement on 26 August.

Any pictures of the said camera yet?

I'm really surprised. If the image stabilized sensor is not true then not much has changed. Expanded ISO is a good thing to have but we'll see what it really looks like after tests. Right now, if the IS in body is not true I see no reason to upgrade from 40D.

Micro AF adjustment - I don't have any problems with any of the lens.
920,000 pixel VGA LCD monitor - nice, but I wouldn't upgrade only because of LCD.
ISO 100-3200 [H=6400/12800] - first really important thing, but we'll see if it will be useful (image quality).
Face Detection - ...
9 cross type AF zones - nice but EOS 40D's AF is really good and enough for me

EOS 40D has almost everything I need. I would think about upgrading if EOS 50D had: spot metering with active AF point, bigger and less grainy viewfinder, useable ISO 3200, in-body IS, not visible AF points in the corners of the focusing screen (not exaclty in the corners, just a little bit off center - it would help focusing a lot).

Still only 9 focus points? Is there any technical reason why focus points can't be added at the "rule of thirds" locations? It's impossible to use the autofocus points to make a nicely composed vertical (other than a tight headshot, maybe) of a person with the current layout of focusing points. They're too close to the center of the frame, or right on the centerline.

Higher iso (assuming it's good quality) is reason enough for me to upgrade. The better LCD is a step forward too: being able to judge focus on the lcd is helpful when you need to know if you nailed the shot. The current lcd screens are just too fuzzy for that.

But this camera better sell for a lot less than the Nikon D300, because Canon is still holding back on the autofocus capability compared to the more expensive cameras in the lineup. Any chance Canon will supply a better-designed vertical grip with this new body? One that puts the AF-ON button on the grip, to match what's on the camera body?

And is it too much to hope for a mirror lockup button in place of the stupid direct-print button?

Want to clarify about earlier machine translation:

- NO in-camera IS, it said in-lens IS

- Shutter life 100,000 times(10万次), Chinese "万" = 10,000

I'd upgrade if it had ECF. Really miss it and hate diddling knobs to select AF points. More MP and facial recognition I don't need.

I came so close to getting a 40D during the rebate period. Bob might remember my thread asking for 5D vs. 40D sample images. An unexpected expense came up so I decided to wait. (Though the price at Amazon didn't change much after the rebate period was over.) I guess now I'm glad I waited. Hopefully I will be able to choose between the 50D or a clearance 40D.

Assuming any of these rumors are true, I'm really curious about the new sensor's performance. Canon must have made a breakthrough in S/N to be confident enough to pack 15 MP onto a cropped sensor AND boost the high ISO two stops. I just can't imagine S/N being the same or worse yet Canon adding the higher ISO options. Maybe they're just smoothing things over with heavy NR, but I'm hoping to see them reclaim a clear edge in sensor technology.

No rumor about weather sealing is a bummer. I actually care more about that than I do about having a 1D AF module. (Though I have to confess my non-weather sealed bodies have been thoroughly abused without failure. I'm careful to avoid condensation when moving between hot/cold environments, but rain, mist, water splashes...they've seen it all and the worst that has happened was I had to have a shutter button replaced that was wearing out.)

I'll be the first to ask. What lenses should I use with my Canon 50D.

Don,

Should I buy a 50D or wait for a 60D?

Can somebody help me, I think my 50D has focus issues?

:-P

And is it too much to hope for a mirror lockup button in place of the stupid direct-print button?

But isn't the direct-print button the most often used button on the camera? More so than even the shutter? How could anyone live without the direct print-button? ;-)

Unless a substabtial improvement has occured in design or fabrication process of the new sensor, the marriage between 15 million pixels and an APS-C size chip is not going to be a happy one. small pixels and small micro-lenses means worse color aberration and lack of per-pixel crispness unless the very best lenses are used. I would take the same 10 mpixel sensor with 1 stop noise improvement over a noisier 15 mpixel one.

Arash - it appears from above that the buffer for raw is 16 frames. The 40D is 17 frames. So, right there, you've lost something.

I forgot to add ECF to my *upgrade-wish list*. I loved it in film cameras. I sometimes have problems with choosing the right focusing point using this little knob and if situation is changing too quickly I just lose pictures.

Next to in body IS,

I like the new canon dslr to have a live view system like Sony's . Where the mirror dont go up during live view and not use the main sensor as focusing sensor , which tend to be slow to very slow. Instead , Sony uses another sensor placed on the prism area to allow live view and uses the usual phase detect focusing sensor . which is fast, like what we're used to.

I hope canon hear our cries.

Can someone here with authority and credibility with canon , send this thread to someone big at canon?

Thank you. I guess :)

Mars C,

Sounds like you want an EVIL camera that focuses quickly. Same here...

Live view is OK, but I see it as a steppng stone to the eventual demise of the traditional SLR. There's no need to have a clunku mirror mechanism, prism, or even a mechanical shutter if an EVF-based camera can operate with the same speed as an SLR, and I believe they will, eventually. Simpler designs, fewer moving parts, no restrictions on lens design. Yes, I know, this is the basis for the m4/3 design, but getting SLR speed might take a while.

So if the body has IS and your lens has IS do I get 6 stops of IS?

That was a joke, well sorta. what would happen?

How about a miniature LCD in place of the pentaprism that not only displays the image from the sensor at 100% coverage, but includes camera settings and live histogram info? Only thing is that there will have to be a custom setting for selecting a sound like a traditional shutter...

Ed V, thats referred to as an EVF (Wikipedia: Electronic View Finder). Generally they don't have high enough resolution to judge focusing/dof. That plus the power usage is a big downside over optical. Not to mention you don't get phase-detect AF if the light only hits the digital sensor. You're stuck with slower contrast af instead.

"That was a joke, well sorta. what would happen?"

Having 2 types of IS at once will not extend the advantage to 6 stops (3+3 = 6) Assuming each have 3 stops advantage. It might make it worst. It is more desirable to use 1 type of IS in a given time in this situation.

Why people like myself and others here want in body IS , Is that we could use our prime lens with the advantage of having IS , because as of now , It seems impossible or impractical for canon to incorporate IS in their short to normal prime, making in body IS much easier thing to do, But due to corporate politics, Canon has not yet done so. Which is why , We here are begging canon to implement in body IS Asap.

Having 2 types of IS at once will not extend the advantage to 6 stops (3+3 = 6) Assuming each have 3 stops advantage. It might make it worst. It is more desirable to use 1 type of IS in a given time in this situation.

Are you sure? I would think that being able to move both a lens group and the sensor would increase the total ability of the system to compensate for movement. Synchronizing the two might be difficult to engineer, so I'm not sure I expect to ever see it.

Still, it would be nice to at least have in body IS that simply turns off when an IS lens is attached. But it's not something I would ever leave the Canon system over.

Thanks for the response Mars I figured having it on both would not make it an advantage ( 3+3=6) that part was a joke. I do agree an IS body would be great for primes or shooting macro.

Almost double my 20D pixels. Faster FPS. I'll wait to see what the people say about the viewfinder. It can't be worse than the 20D. More pixels = more noise on this tiny sensor, I doubt that. I would think that Canon knows better than that, their technology wizards will defeat the noise problem. Looks like I might pick one up next spring, when the price is better and more reviews are in.

Any reason to believe this is true?

No reason not to at this point.

By next spring you'll be waiting for the 60D...

This seems possible since the market life of a DSLR is now down to less than a year (Nikon D40x to D60)

Dave

Feb next year 1D Mark IV.

I am Chinese, but I can not access the original link at this moment.

"... 镜头内置防抖功能，降低因手抖造成的影像模糊，带来更多拍摄乐趣！ Anti-Shake feature built-in camera, due to lower Shoudou the fuzzy images, taken more fun! ... "

Should really read IN-LENS IMAGE STABILIZATION, etc.

Hope that helps.

"坚固的镁合金机身、快门使用寿命达10万次。 Rugged magnesium alloy body, shutter life of 10 million. "

Should read "... Shutter life of 100,000..."

I'm sure Canon would love to go right on selling us another IS hardware system every time we buy a lens, so I'm not holding my breath for in-camera IS. Besides, a sensor based system wouldn't do you any good in the viewfinder. It would in LiveView, but then LV has it's own limitations. I just don't see this as being ready quite yet.

Otherwise, the 50D (if this there is such a thing) seems to be to the XSI what the 40D was to the XTi... not quite better enough to spend an extra grand on, and not really much reason to upgrade from a 40D.

Come on Canon. you know what we're waiting for, and this ain't quite it. I read a rumor today that the new 5D might have a built-in grip, and that gets me and my giant hands a lot more excited than the 50D.

what the 40D was to the XTi... not quite better enough to spend an extra grand on,

You are of course entitled to your opinions but in terms of construction and build quality, feature set and image quality these two cameras dwell in different universes, which is obvious to anybody who even once looked through the 40D viewfinder or processed RAW files from the 40D: pentamirror and noisy files from XTi feel positively medival...

As an aside, fifty-something entries in a nonexistent camera thread... Yes!

This camera needs to have better noise capability than a 40D by a ways if Canon expects people to upgrade, it has my interest but the 40D still has to much noise at higher ISO's and that is more important IMO than 15mp, I hope Canon can hit a home run or 2 here in the next month or so. Any one compare pixel size yet ?

@ Michael

I have used a 40D quite extensively, and I don't deny that it's a better camera is just about every way. However, since I am personally planning on a FF camera in the near future, the 40D just didn't give me enough reasons to buy it over the XTi. I can get nearly the same image quality from the XTi, though I may not have as much fun getting there, that's okay for me. It's going to be my back-up body as soon as we get a new 5D, so should I have spent an extra thousand dollars on a 40D for a better veiwfinder? I don't think so. I'd rather have another lens or two. I'll not deny that the 40D feels worlds better in my hand than the XTi, which even with the grip is too small for my fingers and hard to get hold of sometimes.

If I was only going to have one camera and didn't care about FF, then yes, the 40D would have been it, as the 50D no doubt would be. But the advantages over the XSi remain modest (to me) compared to the next step up to the 5D (mk II, 3D, whatever).

"Unless a substabtial improvement has occured in design or fabrication process of the new sensor, the marriage between 15 million pixels and an APS-C size chip is not going to be a happy one"

Now THAT'S a familiar response to any new body with more photosites... but, as you suggest, substantial improvements have likely been made.

"As an aside, fifty-something entries in a nonexistent camera thread"

No, the camera thread is real... :-)

Interesting read at NL on the new sensors http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d2_3d_7d.html

Of coarse , If you wait long enough, All the replacement of anything would eventually come.

I think Canon cant afford now to strictly follow their 18 month cycle, Or they (and us, you and me) will be left behind, technologicaly speaking. Or are already behind?

Personally, I'll wait and see if the 50d will be a worthwhile upgrade to my old dslr, If not I'll just buy another lens.

My 20D still works fine, but my old eyes would appreciate a nicer viewfinder and bigger, higher resolution LCD, and not just for the pictures, for the menus! I heard the 40D was a big improvement in the viewfinder department. Hope it carries on in the 50D.

It's important not to lose sight of the fact that much as we all lust after the latest technological advances (and I lust as much as anyone), they'll make next to no difference to the quality of your photography or the quality of your images. Maybe they'll give you 5% more "keepers" if you're lucky, but probably not even that.

DSLRs (like the 40D and 5D) are very, very good. Image quality is excellent, noise is low, AF is fast and accurate and metering is reliable. They really don't lack any essential features.

Yes the 50D has ISO 6400 and 12800 and occasionally that might be nice (depending on the quality), but really, how often have you ever shot at ISO 3200. I have, but it's pretty rare for me (and I suspect most people). Of course there will be those who never shoot slower than 3200, but there won't be many of them. Yes a high resolution LCD is nice, but it won't produce better image files. Yes, 15MP are great, but 10 are enough for excellent 20x30 prints. Just how big are you going to print - and are your lenses good enough to even takle advantage of the higher resolution?

After buying many, many cameras, I can say that none of them have really improved my photography. When I've accidentally taken a great shot, it's really never been the advanced technology in the camera that's been responsible. It's usually not even been the quality of the lens. It's been the subject, lighting, composition and finding the right moment to shoot, and none of that has much to do with either the camera or the lens (once you pass a basic quality level which ALL current DSLRs pass).

I once nicknamed the 30D as 20D Mk II. If these spec turns out to be true I hereby nickname the 50D as 40D Mk II.

Happy shooting, Yakim.

I don't understand Canon's thought processes anymore. They have refreshed from the 20D to 30D to 40D and now 50D so quickly, while letting the 5D languish. Their differentiation between XT vs. XTi vs. XSi vs. XS is also razor-thin. I have no idea what market they think they are serving by refreshing these models with extremely-similar versions on such a frequent basis, while leaving their 5D market to rot. Nikon has done a far better job coming out with newer models that fit the marketplace these past few years.

>> "They have refreshed from the 20D to 30D to 40D and now 50D so quickly, while letting the 5D languish. Their differentiation between XT vs. XTi vs. XSi vs. XS is also razor-thin."

I think the difference between the 20D and the 30D is very small. But the 40D is noticeably "upgraded" in certain ways, such as DIGIC 3, 10 mp resolution, live-view, and so on... Most likely the reason for them to upgrade the xxD line to the 50D is the competition from more "advanced" models like the D300 and arguably the K20D, the a700 and the E3. Although the 40D is solidly good and more than enough for most uses, many consumers/photographers will probably continue to crave new bells and whistles (including useless ones) featured in new cameras.

I think the whole deal w/ XT, XTi, XSi, and Xs has more to do with the fact that they are consumer models; and that consumers generally like to purchase "new" or at least refreshed models. Their craving for more MP would be another reason. Competitive rivals such as the K200D and D40 (especially in terms of egronomics relatuve to the XT and XTi) might have also been a factor.

>> "while leaving their 5D market to rot."

I think the official Canon version of the story indicate that they consider the 5D to be a pro camera, which gets refreshed once every three years. Is also possible that the good performance of new competitors might have caused delays with the D5 replacement's introduction, as Canon may want to make a few changes to their prototype camera's design.

The funniest part of this suckers think this is a 50D. SO MANY errors in translation and people take this so literally. It''s basically about the 5D upgrade, NOT the 40D replacement, which isn't due yet for another year, yet people take a 50D to heart? You are too easy to fool.

"It''s basically about the 5D upgrade, NOT the 40D replacement"

Likely this is the case. If they are introducing a successor to 5D, they don't want to loose XXD customers and want them to continue using their APS-c sensor and EFS lenses.

We'll see :)

>> "The funniest part of this suckers think this is a 50D. SO MANY errors in translation and people take this so literally. It''s basically about the 5D upgrade, NOT the 40D replacement, which isn't due yet for another year, yet people take a 50D to heart? You are too easy to fool."

But the original text in Chinese explicitly mentions that the new camera has a 22.3mm times 14.9mm sized sensor, which is APS-C sized. I don't think those exact numbers are resulted from translation errors. Plus it mentioned that the camera can use EF-S lenses. A FF body that can mount EF-S lenses would require some serious redesign.

So bad the poor translation has caused so much confusion online.

Hmm, lookin at the maths, if this true, a 40d buffer pushes 17 raw files at 10megs, this supposed newie 16 raw at 15megs, doesn`t that indicate a faster processing capability? My thought is if canon does not announce a 5d replacement in this next big photoshow, quite a few canon users will slightly p..ed off, and will start lookin at the other offerings, I have already considered the D3 over the older 5d..:) The thread at least is real, more buz than thw 1000d.

>> "this supposed newie 16 raw at 15megs, doesn`t that indicate a faster processing capability?"

The specs say that it has a DIGIC 4, and that may play a role in faster processing speed. The whole thing with ISO 12800 may indicate that Canon has come up with much better sensors/processors that will produce less noise, despite resolution increase to 15 MP.

Considering what advances might bring (not specifically the leaked 50D specs) and bobs comment about their influence on the number of keepers: I think (wishfull thinking, naturally) that what we are going to see is improvements in the user interface - and there is plenty of room here:

- I want a HUGE viewfinder. look through a CANON A1 and you know what you are missing with the DSLR viewfinders. They have improved, but here really bigger = better ... actually thats about it. They could make them smaller, less noisier (thinking leica M here), and give all of them a full-frame sensor. From a sensor and bells and wistles point of view we have about reached the point where it just works.

Harry K - I upgraded from the 20D to the 40D. It's a huge difference. I don't think you need to wait for the 50D. Bigger sensor, large buffer, faster drive, huge lcd screen. No need to play the mythical waiting game when this in the stores.

Nikon has done a far better job coming out with newer models that fit the marketplace these past few years.

Huh? Nikon didn't even offer a FF camera until late 2007, what are you talking about..?

Bob, your last post was right on target. I lust after the newest technology as well, not so much as I used to though because as you said, it hasn't done too much to improve my photography. I have learned more about photography itself and that's what has made huge differences for me; any new piece of hardware has made it easier to get the photo I want, but there isn't anything that a new body is really going to do to change or significantly improve my shooting or how I see a potential subject. The 50D sure looks nice and will undoubtedly do a lot of cool things a lot better than my 30D, but as it stands right now, my 30D outperforms me most days, and there's still much I can learn about using it to get even better results than what I do now. I think the high-ISO performance is amazing on the newest cameras, but to be honest I'm seldom in a situation in which I can use ISO 3200, and I'm still impressed by what cameras can do at 1600, especially after having used fast film a lot in days gone by. For me I guess I'm waiting, not for the next new body, but until I need a new camera.

DIGIC 4 Processor. Why not put it in a 50D first and see how it performs for six months.

After you see how it performs, then move the chip into the 5D MK II, 1D MK IV and 1Ds MK IV? Which will be sometime in 2009 after one or two software updates.

Andy - Perfect sense. Canon hate you, and the entire industry would collapse if everyone thought like you, but you are, of course, 100% right.

Just take a look at all the top photos in the photo.net gallery and ask yourself if, with your current equipment, you couldn't have taken at least 95% of them if you'd had the skill and been in the right place at the right time with the same subject. How many of the top shots would have been impossible to take with your current camera. My guess is very, very few indeed, if any at all. How many were taken at ISO 6400 or ISO 12800? None. How many needed a Digic IV processor? None. How many required the use of a 920,000 high resolutuion LCD screen? None. How many needed 15MP? None.

Equipment is a poor excuse for poor (or dull and uninteresting) photography. Much as I'd like to blame the limitations of my cameras and lenses, in reality I have only myself to blame. It's a lot easier to delude myself into thinking all I need is a "better" camera to get better images than to admit it's me that's at fault of course, but it is a delusion - and a delusion that keeps the camera industry in business.

digic IV + 15mp will give me more latitude. if, say, i can shoot at higher iso with the 50d and retain the image quality i would get using lower iso on the 40d -- i'll take it. many low-light shots are only marginally within the realm of possibility using the 40d. i do a lot of low-light work. if the 50d makes it easier to do this kind of work i'll buy one. if not, i'll use a 5d.

tech advances can (and usually do) make good photography easier. they do not, however, make bad photographers into good shooters -- in most cases, nothing does.

ONCE AGAIN -- a DIGIC IV and a 50D? LOL.

Try this: October 2009 ('09) (oh-nine), not next month. Chill.

Does this mean that soon we'll see Photoshop CS4? If so, will Photoshop customers who have CS2 be able to the buy the upgrade to CS4? Or will it be first time users to CS3, that will have the price-break option to upgrade to CS4?

I'm glad that I went to the 5D from the 20D. If I had gone to the 40D, I'd of had to upgrade to CS3. Because I'm getting the feeling that a 50D will be a great excuse to Photoshop to come out with CS4.

What's the deal about Digiv IV? Why not and if not, so what? It's not like digic III is WAY better than digic II. I don't suppose a digic IV will be WAY better than a digic III.

It's just a hardware chip. It might do things slightly faster or do slightly more things (face recognition anyone?), but it's hardly earth shattering and I don't think any one really cares what number is stamped on it.

Obviously PS4 will be out at some point. It won't be significantly better than PS3, but you'll need it for support of this season's crop of new cameras. How else would Adobe get you to fork out even more money for something you don't really need (or want) to upgrade? To paraphrase the old John Wayne's quote "Who needs hearts and minds when you got them by the %$#^@".

Although I agree with the general thrust of the idea that technology doesn't make a great deal of difference to the possibility of making most good photographs, I think that the current enhancement to high ISO capability does have real consequences in some areas. The leaked specs indicate that for the first time Canon has the confidence to offer 1600 ISO in the auto range used by PIC modes. That could make a huge difference for technologically challenged basketball moms who will simply be able to use Sport mode (finally!) and a 50mm f/1.8 without having to make a series of more complex settings. For those prepared to work a little harder to set 6400 ISO in Av or M mode with their lens wide open and set AI Servo etc., sport at f/4 in poor floodlighting suddenly becomes achievable and much more affordable than with super fast telephoto lenses. Of course, f/4 doesn't achieve quite the same subject separation - but the shutter speed can at least be high enough to freeze some subject motion.

It's a valid point, but most users don't shoot (or need to shoot) at ISO 1600 or higher Again if you look at the top photo.net images, I doubt if any were (or needed to be) shot at high ISO settings. I suppose if ISO 3200 were just as good as ISO 100, then they might, but that's just not going to happen with any camera (due to physics, not technology).

I'm not saying that high ISO shooting isn't important for some. Back when I shot film a lot of it was Kodak TMZ 3200, but I think I was the only one since Kodak dropped TMZ3200 due to lack of sales!

Basically I think that 95% of the "improvements" in the latest model of any camera probably get used about 5% of the time. I know that 90% of the time I'm shooting I'm in Av mode, single shot, one shot AF, evaluative metering, auto white balance, using the center AF zone, and I'm at ISO settings between 100 and 800. I'm barely glancing at the LCD screen other than to make sure I'm not blowing out highlights if the light is high contrast.

Would I like ISO 6400 and 12800 options? Sure I would. Would I use them? Probably not very often. I don't think I'd pay the $700 it would cost me to upgrade to get them though.

that's exactly the point. if, hypothetically, the 50d at iso 400 yields comparable results as the 40d at iso 320 or 200, then i'll take advantage of that capability.

what would make that possible? a sensor with an increased high iso ceiling. while few ever utilize the iso ceiling of their cameras, the fact that the sensor can capture an image at, say, iso 6400 as opposed to a lower ceiling of, say, 3200, implies that the sensor would deliver better results at a more practical iso like 400 (vs. 320 or 200)

the 40d produces what i call 'smooth' grain up to iso 640. i rarely dial in this setting but i'm generally satisfied with the results if i have to use such high speeds. if the 50d yields similar results at iso 800 or 1000 then i'll gladly accept it -- even though it's only 1/3-2/3 of a stop -- i'll take it, and be glad to pay for this level of increased latitude. why? because i need it. to me there is a huge difference between having to shoot at f1.4 and having the option to stop down to f2.0 or f2.2 while still being able to hand-hold the camera.

do most users need this wiggle room? no, of course not.

however, this doesn't mean that i would ever shoot at the 50d's iso ceiling.

For those who read Chinese there is still a Google cache of the original page available here:

(link)

I have to confess that I agree with Bob, and others. A new camera is a new toy. It's why I moved to the 5D last month rather than waiting on my 20D a little longer. But to play devil's advocate a little, camera developments have made me a better photographer. For example, I got a lot more winners with my 20D shooting soccer than I ever did with the Elan IIE before that. Autofocus, response time, and most importantly instant feedback. That instant feedback is a big part of why the amateur can sometimes match professional quality. A steeper learning curve.

Of course those kind of improvements are phase shifts, occurring once every decade or so. The challenge for the corporation is to tap into that effect more frequently. Adobe have turned the trick with a cunning policy of not supporting new equipment with older versions of photoshop. Lightbulb makers have done it as well, designing a lightbulb that burns out. If only Corporations could design a sensor or lens that breaks down with time (grin).

What I would bite on is the better sensor idea. But I expect the 5D is going to be pretty good for the next few years. I would have expected that if the new sensors were so good, we would have seen a bigger difference than we see comparing the 5D to the 1DsMKIII. And for sports, high ISO is a big deal -- I am always bumping into marginal light and poor DOF for long lenses with my 20D. So I do see a niche for a sensor that doesn't show much grain. But I'm going to wait another generation, for a pro level model that has autofocus issues worked out.

Dave

Seems like a lot of people think this isn't much of an upgrade, I think it is a significant upgrade to say the least. Since I started using the live view on my 40D, it opened up a whole new way to take pictures. When doing landscape photography I use it like a mini view camera, what a great focusing aid. I also use it when composing in lower light times like around sunrise and sunset. I find the bright 3" LCD way better for seeing what the final image is going to look like, then viewing the scene only through the viewfinder. Plus you also get to see the scene as the camera will capture it, white balance, etc. When using my TS-E lenses, I find the live view at X10 a must have. You couldn't ask for a better tool for focusing Tilt/Shift lenses. Then when you add a 3 times higher resolution screen on top of that, thank you Canon. If this camera is as clean as the 40D in noise, with 50% again more pixels, all I can say is when I can buy it! Add again an AF micro adjustment, which is something I have been waiting for in a prosumer DSLR for a while now, thank you again Canon. Know more worries if your lens has back focus issues, which many, many do.

So I look forward to the 50D eagerly and think that Canon has hit a home run with this one. It will be by far the finest DSLR ever for $1300 or less.

Bob, could it be possible that most people don't shoot at such high ISO's because there had never been a camera that delivered reasonably clean images until the introduction of the D3?

Personally, one of my biggest pleasures is doing street photography at night, using nothing but available light from the headlights of passing cars, overhead street lights, city buses, even cellular phones. A smartphone with a reasonably large screen will light someone's face like a mini-softbox when they are in a dark place sending a text message.

I think that many casual photographers do not think of taking photos at extremely low light levels because their eyes are not trained to "see" the weak, nuanced ambient light that occurs at night, particularly urban areas, where will have many different sources of light in all shapes, sizes, and colors. Another reason, besides not being trained to "see" the subtle effect of available light at night, is that most people have never used the fast primes offered by Canon that start at several times the price of an entry-level consumer grade camera.

I am able to capture (sometimes barely) these images made on the fringes of handhold-ability because I use a 5D with fast glass (I use a 24/1.4L and Nikon 105mm f1.8 90% of the time), and I know that I would not even think of shooting these scenes if I had nothing but, say, a Rebel XT with a kit lens.

I've photographed a number of people at night, without flash, who were so blown away with my ability to get a clean image at that they buy their first digital SLR just so they can be able to take pictures at night with the freedom of being tied to their point-and-shoot's built-in flash. I have lost count of the number of people I have guided through the checkout process at B&H or Adorama. They always get an entry level camera (XT or XTi) with the kit lens and a 50mm f1.8, because of its optimal max aperture to price ratio.

A seasoned pro knows the difference between ISO100 and ISO1600, and the difference between a 1D, xxD, and an XSi, as well as the meaning of pixel pitch, 16-bit image processors, and so on. The average lifelong point and shoot user, probably does not. I think that a lot of people would be very excited about a "night camera", and I also think it would do Canon well to put emphasis on great high ISO performance not only in their engineering and performance goals but also in the marketing of entry-level cameras. I know that the main reason Canon gave the 50D 15MP is because of the perceived inferiority of the 40D when compared to a competitor's camera with more MP, but you can continue to increase the megapixel count only so much before you make the entry level consumer wary of upgrading (at least when it comes to point and shoot cameras) because it is hard for them to see the difference between this year's 15MP camera and their 18 month old 10MP camera.

I think it would be interesting to see how a hypothetical camera based on the XSi would sell, if it had a 6 or 8MP sensor optimized for a clean max ISO of 6400 or so, built-in AF assist light, came bundled with a lens optimized for night shooting, and was marketed as a camera you could use creatively and flexibly under low light conditions.

IS and high ISO has not made me a better photographer as this is impossible feat to achieve. You become a better photographer when you develop internaly, not because you buy something.

That said, what these technologies have done for me is to enable me to capture images which previously were either very difficult or impossible. Because of that I like technology very much. That said, I won't buy a 50D as I consider it a minor upgrade to my 40D. I might buy a D700 though.

Happy shooting, Yakim.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/680319

Looks like fake website to me.

I for one am very pleased that Nikon is pushing Canon to offer even higher and better ISO performance. For weddings and people photography in general, the ability to capture available light images in (very) low light conditions I find extremely valuable. 1600/3200 on my 5D is not always adequate even using f1.8 (and it would be great to be able to use smaller apertures). For me, signficantly improved ISO performance would definitely trump more MP a la Nikon's D3.

BTW the point about the specs being like the 5D replacement are of course very valid - people have been saying for some years now that the two lines will merge at some point, that point could come very soon...

5D replacement will have even more MP, 25MP ?. Stay tune.

Not sure what is the downside is of canon trickling down technology to prosumers and even intoducing New features that may end up in pro cameras. If this is how they finance it then fine. I'd love not to have to resort to noise ninja to get my high ISO shots acceptable, many would upgrade to get that if it is real.

Though, I strongly believe that it is up to the photographer to make great photos, And I'm sure I'm not the best photography enthiusiast there is, I dont blame my equipment for my non keepers. In fact I have as much of a percentage of nice shots using my digicam, as with my dslr.

What I'm anticipating about the new technologies , Are the new capabilities they could add to my photography, Like the ISO 3200 and 6400 If acceptable. cause I cant always carry big lens everytime nor own alot of them . and for the reasons dicussed above.

I would also need the higher ISO in a concert. cause I dont own a 70-200 2.8 IS or faster tele lens and I'm not a pro( I'm only planning to buy the f4 version, Or should I get the 2.8 versi? F4 vs 2.8 thread again, just kidding). But in a concert situation, Faster is always better, So the equipment capability counts here, given that the person behind the camera knows what he/she is doing with it.

Some pics.

Back pic.

I'm still having a hard time believing that a 50D will be introduced and a 5D Mk II and 1D Mk III N will not.

Happy shooting, Yakim.

some pics

Originally from the site http://www.canon.icp.dog-cr.jp
What a confidence builder!

Someone must have copied this from Canon China and yes Canon is a dog :-).

Why do I need high ISO capabilites? Here's what I frequently encounter:

Canon 40D, EF 50/1.4 @f/2.2, 1/13s, handheld. EXIF intact
ISO 3200 pushed 1 stop to ISOE 6400. The shadows are underexposed by another stop (effectively ISOE 12800.)
Full frame, no noise reduction, resized for web.
1D3 would do better (but I ended up with a wrong camera that evening) but I'd like at least 1 stop more ISOE than 1D3 (and another stop of DR wouldn't hurt either...) So, gimme high ISO capabilities and a 35-70/2 zoom and I'll be happy :-)

Yakim, why is it so hard to believe that Canon would introduce the 50D, before they'd update the 5D, 1D Mk III and 1Ds Mk III?

Justification to charge the dollars they want for a 5D Mk II, 1D Mk IV and 1Ds Mk IV.

The Canon 50D could be about $ 1000 dollars less than the Nikon D300

The Canon 5D Mk II could be about $ 500 dollars less then the Nikon D700

The Canon 1Ds Mk IV could still be where it's at, being a what 25 to 30 MP camera?

The Canon 1D Mk IV could be dollar wise where the Nikon D3 is, but at a 1.3x crop factor and a 15 to 18MP camera.

How about a 50D and a 3D weather sealed etc. released simultaneously, with 5D to stick around awhile? :-)

How do you know they will not be introduced, from what I have heard at leat the 5D will be replaced next month.Ross

It seems to me Canon has always updated their consumer SLRs more frequently than their semi pro models. As for the 50D, I guess I got burned buying my 40D last month.

I. Why the 50D and not the 5D replacement? Perhaps there is more money to be made on consumer grade cameras than on high end cameras.

II. Why higher ISO? This may portend the eventual end of flash as we know it, at least in marginal situations. Extrapolating a few years, what is the future of flash as we know it in virtuallly all situations?

--Lannie

Owning a bunch of Canon primes that do not have IS and are never likely to have IS, the one thing that Canon could give me that would make my life easier is in-body IS. And it is probably the one thing the 50D and the 5D mark II will not have.

>> Yakim, why is it so hard to believe that Canon would introduce the 50D, before they'd update the 5D, 1D Mk III and 1Ds Mk III?

>> How do you know they will not be introduced, from what I have heard at leat the 5D will be replaced next month.Ross

I don't know but just look at their usual life cycles. XXD cycles is 1.5 years. Photokina is 0.5 years earlier. N cycle (only one) is 1.5 years. Photokina is just in time. XD cycles is 3 years. Photokina is just in time.

Happy shooting, Yakim.

I would love a camera with better high ISO performance, as would anyone who shoots sport, events or gigs. I've often maxed out my 30D underexposing at ISO 3200 f1.8 1/50th or less at events in dark rooms where a flash would kill the mood. So I'm certianly interested in the possibilities but I'm also considering full frame but I'm also happy to wait and see what pans out.

As far as getting rid of the flash, that ain't going to happen. It may be that we see a little less need for them at events and things like that but they will always have their place because they can allow you to create a scene with the lighting you want, they can also help with problems of higher contrast than the sensor can capture which will always exist. The aren't just used to increase light enough to take the photo.

Was this the same Chinese Website that insists their female gymnasts are 16 years old?

EOS 50D with an EF-S 18-200/3.5-5.6 IS

http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/canon_eos_50D_preview.html

Don't know what about you but I am far from excited.

Happy shooting, Yakim.

>> Don't know what about you but I am far from excited.

I am half excited, I am waiting for the complete details and the price. If price comes as a positive surprise (same as current 40D market price?) then defenitelty I will think to upgrade from my 3 year old 350D.

I have atleast one lens (100mm USM macro) which will do justice to this increased resolution! Dont know about 18-55 IS and 80-200 EFII

I don't know about 15 megapixels. My 450D looks noisier to me than my 350D. I shudder to think what 15 megapixels will look like. I can think of a dozen things I would like and none of them involve more megapixels.

I agree with Geoff... I wonder what would 12800 ISo look like with 15 Mpix in a APS-c camera ishhh!

There's also something strange, has someone else said it, on the chinese site, only the 50D link works... altough the thing look real, it's smell fake site....

The greatest advantage I see of the 50D is that it might make it cheaper for me to upgrade to a 40D.

This is too funny... 15MP, 6400 ISO, and a 50D annct... and the moon is made of green cheese right? (remember, some people who read this thread come here for news not laughs)

...but when I read Bob's article and the accompanying 15MP action photo (600 mm lens) shot, taken five weeks ago... it does make me gom "Hmm...."

[[The greatest advantage I see of the 50D is that it might make it cheaper for me to upgrade to a 40D.]]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that :)

The 40D as the mid-grade model has 10MP while the lower end XSi has 12MP. For the "average consumer" the higher model must have higher MP too. I know the 5D has 12MP, so this might mean that the 5D replacement is also around the corner ;)

I got the 40D since Feb 08, and will not regret this. New models will always come out but if I didn't have a camera with me I would've lost a lot of photo opps.

I am not at all interested in this either. I have a 40D and I have a feeling that most 20/30/40D users next body will be full frame while the Rebel users may go up to the 40/50D.

To much emphasis on mega-pixels. Thats marketing for you.

I can see why people might not see themselves going from the 40 to the 50D, but as someone who has been pondering dumping his old original digital rebel for something like the 40D I'm excited.

Interesting thread. Marketing wise it is a good time to release such a camera - holidays are on the way and the price point and non entry level dSLR market segments seem to be in alignment. So if the 50D is real, then it might meet with similar success to that the 40D has enjoyed. Probably even better if the rumored specs are accurate. Many are waiting for a successor to the 5D and I feel that Canon are biding their time. My opinion is that the new 5D is ready and Canon will soon announce it. It will be a nice pro body, but the prosumer market seems to be larger. For me, the 50D won't be real until it shows up on Canon's site. This feels like the recent iPhone release - a tidbit of information feeding rumor creating excitement to build pent up demand. For now, my "old" 40D is more than adequate.

"I have a feeling that most 20/30/40D users next body will be full frame"

Not *AT ALL* - many hobbyist wildlife and sports shooters need the crop factor.

This is a much bigger increase in pixel count than what is typical. It may not matter to a lot of people, but with good technique and good lenses, 50% more pixels is significant for someone shooting highly detailed subject matter like landscapes...which are typically shot at the lowest available ISO.

Darn! I've only had my 40D for a couple of months! But 15 MP for a 50D? Surely not! We all know that more MP means smaller photosites and less light reaching them. Canon seems to be creating sensors with more MP while trying to maintain noise levels. Maintain? Why not improve noise performance! I'm looking for an affordable camera that will comfortably outperform my 40D and 400D in the noise department, as well as dynamic range.

So what is the effect of photosite size on high ISO performance? DPReview commented on the 21 MP 1DsIII saying ''In truth the Mark III isn't likely to be the first port of call for anyone prioritizing very high ISO performance..'' They also said of the Nikon D3 ''Of course the Nikon D3, which has the advantage of far larger pixels, produces noticeably less noisy results at higher ISO settings (without any serious impact on detail) - and keeps on going all the way to an unprecedented ISO 25,600."

Sure, the 1DsIII is designed for studio work and for situations where high resolution is important, but...

Is Canon losing the plot?

Cheers, Bob.

"I don't understand Canon's thought processes anymore. They have refreshed from the 20D to 30D to 40D and now 50D so quickly, while letting the 5D languish. Their differentiation between XT vs. XTi vs. XSi vs. XS is also razor-thin. I have no idea what market they think they are serving by refreshing these models with extremely-similar versions on such a frequent basis, while leaving their 5D market to rot. Nikon has done a far better job coming out with newer models that fit the marketplace these past few years."

I think everyone was expecting a 5D replacement this time around. I too was expecting it. Why they haven't yet I don't know. I'd surely like a 5DII myself. If the 50D is 15 megapixels, I might budge on getting one. I tend to shoot a lot of 16x20 pics and make those with a 6x7 camera, so I'd like all the rez I can get. My last digi slr was a XTi at 10 mp, so 15 is a nice jump for me. Now the price is what I'd wonder about. I wonder when we will see a 5D replacement, as I'd still like to go full frame.

Its real

http://www.canon.com.au/about/press_room/story_1952.html

sorry if this has been posted already.

So I can laugh now to a guy that call me an "easy to fool" guy. Whoever you are you are such a FOOL.

It's on Canon USA web site also.

(link)

EF-S LIVES! :)

I have nothing against full frame. I may own an FF camera one day. But for now, I am happy to see that for a few more years, there will be current production cameras to use my EF-S lenses on, just in case my old body needs to be retired.

/bing

Per new rumor 5D Mark II will have 21 MP.

I wonder if maybe there will not be a successor to the 5D. It is so overdue compared to models in the 40D/50D line and Rebel line I have to wonder if Canon plans to continue it. It's not like consumers, prosumers and pros don't have pretty good alternatives.

There will be....be patient.

As some of the grumpier people are heard a lot I'll let you hear another voice:

In about one year my 400D will be worn out and my savings hopefully swollen.

The 50D will probably have dropped a little in price and it has (in order of appreciation):

Very high ISO with respectable noise levels, a nice big viewfinder, auto ISO, superfast AF and a better screen, all in a 30D sized-and-weighted rugged body that's accoring to some sources even dust-and-waterdrop-sealed.

(Not to mention folder selection, a few more pixels, enhanced liveview for MF, 6+ FPS, mini-RAW, better handling of high contrast situations and vignettecontrol which are all welcome but not that high on my wishlist.)

Woohoo, Matthijs.

"Woohoo, Matthijs"

Quite right too, Matthijs: despite what the whiners have to say about it, the 50D looks to be a *fantastic* camera.

There's more to come too - it's a good time to be a Canon user.

“..they'll make next to no difference to the quality of your photography or the quality of your images. Maybe they'll give you 5% more "keepers" if you're lucky, but probably not even that. … After buying many, many cameras, I can say that none of them have really improved my photography. When I've accidentally taken a great shot, it's really never been the advanced technology in the camera that's been responsible. It's usually not even been the quality of the lens. It's been the subject, lighting, composition and finding the right moment to shoot, and none of that has much to do with either the camera or the lens (once you pass a basic quality level which ALL current DSLRs pass).”

I agree that lighting, composition, and “the” moment are what makes a good or great photo, and I confess that I lack in capturing/creating 2 or more of those areas most of the time. I have to counter that it is not the idea that a new camera will solve my short comings. Rather, it is that newer technology may give me more opportunity to compose or capture a moment. Higher ISOs, faster AF, better AF, more tools, all may give me a few more opportunities that I do not have now. That is the allure for me.

While I love the photos that I’ve made with every camera I’ve had, I still feel remorse over shots that got away because AF was too slow and missed the moment, or the ISO was so slow that the photo had either a lot of motion blurring or muddied shadows, or whatever the short coming of the camera was… Sure, it can be said I should have been able to recognize that the opportunity was unfolding or planned better, however its not always easy to time the moment or recognize that its coming. And, even very good technique can’t overcome some of the short comings of a camera.

Having 5% more keepers, it is worth a LOT. How many “it” photos could be in that batch? The ones you really love. Maybe not a lot, but we won't really know until we take a few photos. However, practically, it is hard to justify buying every new camera. The 50D is Very tempting, and I may buy it when it is available. However, I’d still rather hold out for a little while longer and see if a 5D replacement comes before the end of the year. I’m conflicted because I could use every bit of the new ISO ranges in a lot of the photos I take, but also I love to take other photos that beg for a full frame sensor, and like most I can’t afford both. I’m just going to have to miss a few photos ops with my rebel for a while longer and see what else unfolds.

I agree with Matt Brost. ISO performance in particular is key to me - 1 to 1.5 stops improvement is huge. I like shooting around dusk when the light is nice and soft, and I can't tell you how many shots I've missed because of motion blur or shake. Doubling or tripling shutterspeeds certainly would help a lot.

I say: 10% more pixels in each direction, meh, whatever. But clean 1600 iso and useable 3200 iso would be just awesome, worth an upgrade.

I have a bag full of cameras and lenses and will upgrade from a 400D to the 50cal. Having said this, Matt's post is illustrative. It almost seems like damn luck is one of the keys to a good shot. My point is that I hope for more damn luck with the 50D than I have had with other cameras.

I haven't learned to fully us my 40D so, the 50D is of no interest to me. Seems to me that photograpers of old used to use their equipment for many years before trading up; and they still took great pictures. So I indend to do the same. Maybe the time to pick up a second 40 D body as a back up.

Some more 50D examples:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/38283834@N00/sets/72157607133799691/

Wow, this is getting long!

Just to have my 2 pence worth - I'm a pro & I use both systems EFS and EF & they are both just as 'good' and both have their place.

Wide lenses are cheaper than long lenses (L series glass)

- I'd much rather use a 10 mp 40D body to have an extra 1.6 x crop on top of a 200 or 400mm lens when i'm doing motor sport photography or wildlife photography or for reportage. I also save myself a vast sum over the 1DMK3 (which has less crop anyway). My 2 40D's have been all over the world with me, in all kinds of situations in all kinds of weather - 1 got soaked in a downpour, one got full of sand...yet i've never had any problems with them ever and, if you know what your doing, their inferior focus system to the 1D series, doesn't really become a problem. You just have to find ways to work around it, try something new or different. I've never had a problem getting pin sharp images of cars approaching me at 200mph when i've been on the pit wall. And the images it produces are fantastic, period.

They generate far less attention when you want to be discrete, the grip is detachable - which is a massive boon, especially when I want to do a rig shot or want to attached the camera to a car or moving object, because it weighs much less. Also all the accessories and batteries are cheap as chips. The 10-22mm EFS lens and the 17-55 2.8 IS are both fantastic and I would judge comparably to L series in image quality (17-40 f4 & 24-17 F2.8). Ok, so you can't use these lenses on a FF, that never bothered me because I usually run only primes on the 5D I had, mainly because the camera was too slow to use in anything other than 'set up' situations where I knew what focal length I required anyway.

I will continue to run both systems side by side - but I definitely will not be 'upgrading' to 50D's until they start selling them for what their worth - around the £600-700 mark- then I might give them a punt. This is especially true when you consider that you can pick up a 'new' second hand 40D in Mint condition for around £400!

I will be buying the new 5D Mk2 simply because it will be a great studio camera for fashion and advertising and yet it will still be able to go out on location and perform with a fair lick of speed - should a client require a larger res image than the 40D can supply. Also the 5D images - although they required a lot more post-processing than any other camera i've own - always looked stunning, just a little bit special, especially landscapes. Must have been the high IQ. (?) So for me the 5D MK2 is a no brainer - I will be pawning my grandmother any day now... :o)

As for the 1D series of cameras, well it's funny...although at times I do have the money to invest in this range, in 8 years i've never thought that they were good enough value. I enjoy using them when I get loaned them - and I hate going back to the 5D or 40D for about a day or 2 - when I think of all that lovely glass I bought instead, or that I could have 5 10MP 40D's for the price of 1 10MP 1D MK3 - it just doesn't add up. As for weather sealing and all that, well I've never had a problem.

Nice, now the 40D price will drop some more.