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EFS 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM vs. EF 17-40 f/40 L

shane rempel , Aug 29, 2008; 01:57 a.m.

I have recently purchased a XSi with the kit lens, EFS 18-55. So far I havent been to impressed with the quality of images from the kit lens so I'm thinking of buying a new/better lens. I have been doing some digging and I'm trying to choose between the EFS17-55f2.8 or the L series EF17-40f/4.0. Im leaning more towards the 17-55 for more aperture and more zoom for an all around "walkaround" lens, but I'm curios; how much better is the L series and which would be the better choice?

thanks for you opinions!

Responses

Sinh Nhut Nguyen , Aug 29, 2008; 02:04 a.m.

www.thedigitalpicture.com, you can read the lenses' reviews from there, rent them if you can.

shane rempel , Aug 29, 2008; 02:30 a.m.

I read the reviews, they both seem like great lenses, but I'd like to get opinions from people with experience on the better choice.

B.J. Scharp , Aug 29, 2008; 03:17 a.m.

If price is not an issue, get the 17-55. The 17-40 isn't designed as an APC-C walkaround. It's designed as a FF wide- to-superwide. It'll be unnecessarily heavy, and probably often too short when used on a crop-sensor camera. In image quality, the two are so close as to make no difference for most users.

And as said, with 2.8 and IS, the 17-55 is effectively 3 stops faster for most purposes.

Wooi Loon , Aug 29, 2008; 04:41 a.m.

If you think you will stick to cropped factor DSLR for a certain of period, then EF-S 17-55 has lot more to offer, f/2.8 , extra reach and IS. If you think you might upgrade to full frame, then EF17-40 is a nice piece of lens. You can't really compare both, because 17-55 has the advantage to stop down to match f/4 to 17-40 f/4. If both stop down to f/5.6, probably you won't see the difference.

Check this out: EF 17-40 f/4 L versus EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS

Jakob Leiner , Aug 29, 2008; 06:23 a.m.

Go for the 17-55. You have more reach, it's faster, lighter, porperly sharper and if you happen to go FF sell it and buy a 24-70L. Only downside is the missing lenshood.

Jakob

Paul Russell , Aug 29, 2008; 07:12 a.m.

The 17-40 f4L is NOT a heavy lens and is not particularly bulky (without the lens hood at least)

It is very well weather sealed and is exceptionally fast focusing.

I use it on a 400D where the sensor crop makes the most of the sweet spot, so even at 17 its sharp across the diagonal corners wide open.

I also use it on a film body (the 3) and will use it on the 5D mk2 (or 6D) when I get one.

IS is useful, but generally at longer focal lengths. With shorter focal lengths you can use longer shutter times without as much shake and the limiting factor actually becomes subject motion blur.

With the 17-40 being an EF mount lens you can use it on any EOS camera from the last 20 years, all current models and almost certainly all future models. The 17-55 2.8 is an EFS and is only compatable with current and recent consumer range canons. No bad thing if thats all you use now and all you will ever use, but for me it would be too much of a compromise, especially at such cost.

The supplied 18-55 gets better with every incarnation, for the cost it's never going to upset the L's but would you consider spending the money on expanding your overall range instead? A super wide like a 12-24? A tele like the 70-300 IS or 70-200L? A nice macro (the Sigma 70mm f2.8 DG is a corker) and a flashgun?

I had the same choice but had to accomadate a film body as well, getting the 17-40 was, for me the best choice.

Matthijs Claessen , Aug 29, 2008; 10:16 a.m.

For me it will be the 17-40 because I will not use it for low-light, I prefer the color and contrast when compared to the competition and I like the ease of use of it a lot. (Really smooth zoom/focus rings, no extending while zooming or focussing, weathersealing, smaller size & weight.)

For me lowlight is currently the 50/1.8 and will be the 50/1.4.

However, most photographers will be better served by the 17-55/IS because of the better focal range, greater aperture and the IS.

Regards, Matthijs.

Size/Weight 17-40: 83,5x96,8mm and 475g.

Size/Weight 17-55: 83,5x110,6mm (extends) and 645g.

G Dan Mitchell , Aug 29, 2008; 11:27 a.m.

A few comments on the 17-40 v 17-55 issue:

First, if you are not able to get decent to good images from the IS kit lens, you probably will not see much difference with the other lenses. The kit lens is capable of producing quite decent photographs, but in order to do so you'll need to get a handle on issues of technique with the camera and in post-processing... and without this you'll not be able to take advantage of the capabilities of the other lenses either. Your results won't look much different at all.

I shoot full frame and I'm a big fan of the 17-40mm f/4 L for certain types of work - especially for small aperture shooting of subjects including natural/urban landscapes, architecture, and so forth. That's not all it can do - I also use it for some types of street photography on my full frame camera.

I used it on a cropped sensor camera for a year or so before I switched to full frame. There it was a competent performer, often capable of excellent sharpness in the center of the frame and providing a very useful focal length range on the crop body. I never was fully pleased with the performance in the far corners of the frame, even when stopping down to f/8. (One could improve this a bit by stopping down to f/11, though more than that risks some diffraction blurring.) In many shots it was good enough, but with some subjects I'd end up having to crop a bit to lose the far corners. My verdict: for me the 17-40 is a fine lens though I find it more suited to FF than to cropped sensor cameras.

I have not used the EFS 17-55 f/2.8 IS, so my knowledge of it is based on an understanding of its feature set and some research into reviews and tests. If I were looking for a lens in this range and I had a cropped sensor body I would very definitely select the EFS lens over the 17-40 today. Its strengths include: wider focal length range, reported/tested excellent optical performance throughout the FL and aperture range, inclusion of f/2.8 maximum aperture, image- stabilization, and a reasonable cost for a lens with this feature set.

It is important to get past the perception that any L lens option is always a better choice than a non-L alternative. This is not always true. In terms of functional differences in this case, the only real "advantages" of the 17-40 over the 17-55 for your purposes are: slightly better build quality, a red ring, and the letter "L." (Thought experiment: Which would you choose if neither had the "L" designation?)

For a very illuminating comparison, go to slrgear.com and then click to their Canon zoom lens test list. Find these two lenses and open their test results in two windows or tabs. On each look for the small 3-D "blur chart" illustrations and click them so that they open in two windows, one for each lens. Then do a side by comparison at same/similar focal lengths and at the same apertures. I think that what you see here may help you in your decision.

Dan

Gil Pruitt , Aug 29, 2008; 11:49 a.m.

If you aren't getting good pictures with the excellent 18-55mm IS kit lens that comes with the XSi you may not get good pictures with any other 'better' lens. I have both the 17-55mm 2.8 and the 17-40mm 4.0 L lenses. They are slightly sharper and with possibly a little better color and contrast rendition with weight being the tradeoff. I like the XSi with the kit lens for use on the street. The best camera is the one you will carry and have with you when the picture happens. Most good pictures happen 3-4 inches behind the lens with good technique, knowledge of light and composition, good post processing. JMNHO! Sample pic with XSi and 18-55mm IS kit lens.

Dick Arnold , Aug 29, 2008; 02:05 p.m.

The 17-40 is not very heavy, produces great images on a crop body and I walk around with it all the time. It is a little short on some occasions but 55 isn't that much longer and I have three other lenses I can switch to if I want to go longer any where from 18 to 400mm plus exenders, which I never really use. You can move to a 5D with it. I have IS for longer focal lengths but don't feel I need in the 17-40 range.

Matthijs Claessen , Aug 29, 2008; 03:13 p.m.

Gentlemen,

Though I love the defense of the 17-40 (the lens I'm saving up for to mount on my 400D) I'd like to stress that for most photographers in most situations the 17-55/IS will be the better lens.

Kind regards, Matthijs.

shane rempel , Aug 29, 2008; 03:48 p.m.

I am getting good pictures for the most part, but the problem I am having is clarity. I find that my pictures around the 1/60 range and above are often fuzzy or blurry, hence why I am looking at the 17-55 f/2.8. I believe that would allow me to use slightly faster shutter speeds in the same lighting situations therefore giving me a bit better clarity. Also I gather from some reviews that I have read with sample pictures that the color is much better..

G Dan Mitchell , Aug 29, 2008; 04:16 p.m.

"I am getting good pictures for the most part, but the problem I am having is clarity. I find that my pictures around the 1/60 range and above are often fuzzy or blurry, hence why I am looking at the 17-55 f/2.8. I believe that would allow me to use slightly faster shutter speeds in the same lighting situations therefore giving me a bit better clarity. Also I gather from some reviews that I have read with sample pictures that the color is much better."

It would be a very good idea for you to share a few examples, either here or perhaps in a new thread: "Help analyze soft images from my camera."

There are a ton of reasons that your images could look fuzzy. It isn't wise to assume that buying a $1000 lens will solve the problem if it is caused by other factors. And shooting at f/2.8 is only the answer to sharpness issues in limited circumstances - especially since lenses are going to be less sharp at the largest apertures.

I think it is worth noting again that if you can't get reasonably sharp photos from the 18-55 kit lens you will almost certainly not get sharp photos by switching to a "better" lens since the softness is almost certainly caused my something other than your current lens choice.

shane rempel , Aug 29, 2008; 04:38 p.m.

What about the differences in color quality?

Here are some sample pics...


Attachment: file6r2yi7.jpg

shane rempel , Aug 29, 2008; 04:41 p.m.

another


Attachment: filexJXeSa.jpg

shane rempel , Aug 29, 2008; 04:43 p.m.

I will post some more later

bob prangnell , Aug 29, 2008; 10:21 p.m.

When I upgraded my 18-55IS kit lens to a 17-55, the most noticeable improvement was much less CA (and the ability to shoot better in low light). But the standard lens is pretty good for a kit lens. The 17-55 might improve the first sample shot as it's low light and you'd be able to use a faster speed. But I doubt it would make a lot of difference for shot 2 (apart from less CA - color fringing)

Just my 0.02

G Dan Mitchell , Aug 29, 2008; 11:08 p.m.

Thanks for posting the samples. The photo of the child is a very appealing shot, but there is clearly some camera motion blur in this one. It also does not appear that the camera autofocused on the subject. According to the EXIF data it was shot at 1/90 second and f/5.6 at ISO 200, so there shouldn't have been any autofocus problem on that account and with some care you should be able to hand hold the camera for a shot like this at 1/90. In other words, slow shutter speed caused by not having a large aperture available played no part in the sharpness problem in this one.

A couple thoughts on this one. Since you have the XSi, I presume that you use the EFS 18-55mm image-stabilized lens. You may already know this, but if not... image-stabilization does not engage instantaneously. It takes a fraction of a second for the mechanism to spin up. The usual approach is to half-depress the shutter button and pause perhaps at least a half second or even a bit more to allow IS to fully engage. This also activates AF so look to see if an AF point lights up on the right part of the subject - important since it doesn't look like your camera AF'ed anywhere on the subject.

Bottom line on this shot: I am pretty sure that the camera and/or the subject were in motion and causing some blur, and it does not appear that the camera autofocused on your subject - and the settings you used are well within the range of what your current lens can do. (Look at the red toy in the child's hand to see a good example of motion blur in this image.)

The other shot was at 27mm and f/11 and 1/250 at ISO 200. It is also almost a full stop underexposed, though the dynamic range of the scene is not very wide and even the dark tones fall within the histogram. Why does it not look sharply focused? There are several issues in this photo that may play a part. The underexposure means that you have a bit more noise and reduced detail in the dark areas beneath the fog bank. I think that your meter may have been "fooled" by the bright fog. Always look at your histogram after exposing if you can - in general, though there are exceptions, the histogram curve should be closer to the right side of the display. (But always try to avoid going past that - this will be indicated by the blinking black areas in your display.) There is not reason for this scene to be photographed at f/11. The optimal apertures for sharpness on this lens/camera are likely to be around f/8. Although the effect is probably not great in this shot at f/11, diffraction blur can begin to be noticeable if you stop down past about f/8 on a 1.6x cropped sensor camera. I don't have any way of checking, but I wonder what you camera picked for its AF point in this scene. There is a possibility that it couldn't lock on anything give the low contrast and the fog, especially if you didn't have all the AF points active. (I think you can determine what AF points activated by using DPP software that came with your camera.)

In the fog image, even it it were sharp, you still would see an image that "pop" because of the very low contrast levels and generally dark image. Some post processing could help here. I'll attach an quickie example, though I can't do a whole lot with this jpg.

Do you ever get a sharp photo? If not, are you seeing AF lights come on in the viewfinder when you shoot? If so, it might be worth doing a simple test to rule out a misadjusted camera and/or lens.

If you have a tripod, put the camera on it. If not, place the camera on a solid surface like perhaps the edge of a table top, etc. If you have a remote release, use it - if not, use the self-timer so that you don't have to be touching the camera when the shot is made. If you do have the remote release, also enable mirror lockup. (I'm not sure you can do that with the self-timer, but if you can use it there, too.)

Point the camera at a subject that is easy to focus on - good contrast/texture and mostly in a plane more or less parallel to the sensor in your camera. Using aV mode (where you can manually change the aperture), start at your widest angle setting and your largest aperture - I think that is f/3.5 on your lens - and make an exposure. Then manually change the aperture to f/4 and repeat. Then to f/5.6 and repeat. Then to f/8 and repeat. This should be far enough on the crop sensor body.

Now repeat the process at two or three different focal lengths, ending at the most telephoto setting - each time taking the series of exposures.

Now look at the images closely. They may not be perfectly "tack sharp," but they should look pretty decent, especially in the shots done at around f/8. If you look at them at 25% magnification they should look darn good. At 50% they should still look pretty good, though they may show a bit of softness. You could inspect 100% magnification, but unless you know what to look for you could be fooled by what you see here.

If your 25% magnification inspections do not look fairly sharp on screen it is possible that you have a camera/lens that is/are out of adjustment. (It is also possible that some other settings are not correct on your camera, but I'm afraid I can't go through all of those possibilities.) Take it to a shop or send it to Canon for further analysis.

If these shots do look pretty good at 25% your problems are almost certainly not due to lens problems, and could be along the lines I mentioned above.

Dan

bob prangnell , Aug 30, 2008; 12:15 a.m.

Nice analysis, G Dan.

shane rempel , Aug 30, 2008; 07:48 p.m.

Thanks for the responses everyone, I think I may just hang on to my kit lens and work with that for a bit.

Pete Millis , Aug 31, 2008; 07:48 p.m.

Dan, definitely hang on to the kit lens for the time being. I agree with all Dan has said. The kit lens is actually pretty good - I have used it lots and it's sharp even when fairly wide open. The attached for example, was shot at f4.5, 1/160s shutter speed and ISO 400 in natural light. And my version is not the IS one.

One of your biggest problems on the first photograph is your colour balance (unless you want the picture to look orange) which is nothing to do with the lens. And also the blur - at 1/60s you should be able to hand hold well, but not everybody can, and it also won't freeze movement of the subject. You would have been better off using a higher ISO setting and a faster shutter speed. The white balance you can correct in post processing, or if shooting JPEG you can set the WB in camera for the type of light. I usually prefer to fiddle with the WB in post to get the picture how I want it to be.

The foggy valley scene - definitely under-exposed and lacking in contrast. A "better" lens won't correct for this - it's just the way the photograph was taken. You can make some improvement to exposure in post processing, but it would have been better to get a correct exposure at the time. You can also work on the the contrast, curves and saturation and sharpness in post processing to get closer to what you may want.

Also, remember to sharpen photographs slightly in post processing RAW or if shoooting JPEG with in-camera sharpening turned off. Photographs do come out soft from the camera and need to be sharpened a bit.

I notice you've asked another question about post-processing - get to grips with this a bit and it will help enormously, far more so than dropping big money on a new lens right now.

Here's one of the first shots I made with the 18-55 EF-S lens after hacking it to fit my Canon 10D...


Olive Boy (small versio)

Pete Millis , Aug 31, 2008; 07:50 p.m.

here's full size one...


Olive Boy (larger)

Pete Millis , Aug 31, 2008; 07:57 p.m.

aargh...didn't mean to do that. It was meant to be a link to full size one, not just an inline larger one - dunno what happened there. Ho hum!

shane rempel , Sep 01, 2008; 02:35 p.m.

Again thanks for the advice, I'm glad I posted my query before running out and buying a new lens.

Thanks!

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