James Nachtwey Internship--A Complicated Tale

I think some young photographer is going to have an incredible opportunity to learn about what it takes to be top, working photojournalist and to make contacts they'd probably never make otherwise, and I think a lot of people kvetching on the internet need to pull their heads out of their behinds.

Eh, aside from a very few industries, that's the world of internships. Most are unpaid. The company is taking a chance on an unproven young person with no industry references or real experience. In return, that young person gets a chance to get their foot in the door without having any of that experience. A young professional (in any field) has to consider if the experience and the fact that someone will know who you are is worth working for free (or very little).

Sure, you are doing a lot for nothing. But where else can you become a "known entity" to editors/photographers/art-directors/etc (depending on the particular internship). That sort of thing can give you a real leg up in the industry. The hardest thing for young photogs to do is to get their foot in the door. Internships are a traditional way to do that. Assistant positions are as well, but that sort of thing only exists in some very specific genres of photography. Documentary photojournalism isn't one of them.

Is Nachtwey making a lot of money? I don't know, probably. If he isn't, he's a bad businessman. But so is every Madison Ave ad agency or LA fashion magazine. If that is against your morals as a young person, that's fine. It's a reasonable stance to have. But don't expect things to change.

And I've got to tell you, if I ever got around to creating an internship position for PN, it would very likely be unpaid. We just don't have anything in the budget for it. If that means some people wouldn't be interested, that would be perfectly understandable. But that isn't going to change the realities of the budget. I'll always choose more programmer hours rather than giving some kid money for doing little stuff.

If I were wanting to be a PJ and if I could afford it, I'd have to think about the chance to hang around somebody like Nachtwey. I think it's demeaning that he's looking for PS talent and an office administrator but isn't willing to pay for those skills.

If I were young and naive, I'd probably jump at it. Because I'm a little older and wiser, I'd question what kind of experience it would be. My guess is that it could be rough "working" for somebody like him, especially when he's telling applicants up front that he does not value their time at all.

If you can't figure out how to turn a profit from somebody's labor, then do you really need that labor?

Josh, why would you want an intern that does little? I understand not wanting to hand out money for no return, but why not carve out a job that would benefit both the intern and the company?

Eric

If I were in college and just starting out, I'd have to weigh my options:

1) Interning with James Natcheway; or

2) Whining on a web forum.

Tough decision, isn't it, especially in today's shrinking job market for photographers.

"Is [he] making a lot of money? I don't know, probably. If he isn't, he's a bad businessman."
". . .if I ever got around to creating an internship position for PN, it would very likely be unpaid. "

Hmmm. Looks like the successful applicant will be the one who convinces Josh to give him a paycheck!

Josh, why would you want an intern that does little? I understand not wanting to hand out money for no return, but why not carve out a job that would benefit both the intern and the company?

The stuff that the site needs help getting done is either the kind of stuff that is fairly "busywork" (facebook updating, blog keeping, twittering, answering email, etc) or larger stuff that an intern isn't going to be qualified to do (programming our old and weird system, writing high end review or instructional articles, etc). There are a few things that an intern could do that would benefit both of us (basic photo tutorials, minor reviews, research for content, interviews, etc). And I'm sure that with someone who was motivated we could (and would) figure out stuff that would benefit both the site and their career.

But for the most part, what we need done is the "PN" version of doing boring PS work for Nachtwey. And overall, that stuff isn't the kind of stuff that is something I could justify taking money from more important parts of the budget for. Do we really want to give up programmer hours to have someone Twittering? Of course not. Twitter is interesting and perhaps helpful in many ways, but it's far from crucial. So I end up overworked and not getting enough of the small stuff done. But that's the way it is sometimes.

Anyway, at the end of the day, it's a academic debate for photo.net. There isn't money in the budget for an intern, particularly in this economy. So even if there was someone who was motivated, had some skills and wanted to do anything we had to do, we couldn't offer them cash. It just isn't an option.

Hmmm. Looks like the successful applicant will be the one who convinces Josh to give him a paycheck!

Sure, come up with a plan to increase revenue and decrease costs while keeping staffing and site traffic/activity the same. Then again, if you could do that, you'd be offering your services as a high end consultant, not as a bargain basement intern.

Josh, you have my email if you need my consult. I'm sure we can work out something to meet your needs. ;-) I was only playing a little.
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What's the debate about? [That specific page seemed like it had degraded into an argument about power and money, not an internship.] At large, what's to fuss over the internships?

When I read over some of the thread in the OP for a minute, it looked like some folks were mad because the intern doesn't receive a paycheck. Well, it's more than that, financially: the intern probably still has to pay out money to their university in order to receive credit for the internship. In that respect, it's no different from any other class.

It's too bad that things are tough all over. Who wouldn't like to have life a little easier? Yet, this one person with this one internship offer is not the only game in town.

I had a friend of mine in college; like me, he was older by the time he got to school. He already had a degree and a fair career under his belt, and was reworking his life for something more interesting than what he had before. His degree program in Journalism pretty much meant that he had to intern somewhere. Instead of going out to the few main news sources in town, he picked a lowly tabloid that most people didn't regard seriously. From his point of view, it was a good gig; they had an okay ad revenue stream and were profitable. He did his internship there and loved it. When he graduated, he moved on under his power.

The "name" internships can sometimes be seen like well-named schools: they appear to be some magic carpet ride to success. Is that a realistic view of life?

I think Bill Allard's story of his landing a summer internship at National Geographic is about the only story I've heard of an internship translating into actual, astounding, success. Yet, that probably had more to do with the photographer than the internship. Size up the odds: that one success against everyone else who landed a pub job at the time, and it's lightning-strike, lottery odds. There is no magic carpet ride.