Steven Moseley , Jul 28, 2007; 07:17 a.m.
Hi,
Q: When is a 'Carl Zeiss' lens not a 'Carl Zeiss' lens?
A: When it is a Carl Zeiss 'JENA' lens....
I am posting this because as a Contax/Zeiss user, I am concerned that an
increasing number of people are potentially getting misled into thinking that
the old M42 screw mount Carl Zeiss 'Jena' lenses are proper Zeiss lenses, when
in fact they are nothing of the sort.
In particular there has been a mushroom effect in people using older lenses
with adaptors on digital SLR's and sellers on a certain auction site are most
certainly IMO trying to con bidders into thinking these old M42 Zeiss 'Jena'
lenses are the real thing...in other words misleading bidders into thinking
they are the equivalent of the 'proper' Contax Zeiss lenses.
Just for the record..these M42 screw Carl Zeiss 'jena' lenses were made in
Eastern Germany (DDR) run by the Russians after the end of world war two and up
until the fall of the Berlin wall. The only real connection to Carl Zeiss is
that they were made in the old Zeiss factory in Jena, which was 'inherited' by
the Russians. It was just quite literally four walls and a roof.
The proper Carl Zeiss company in Western Germany was furious that the Russians
were making lenses with the Zeiss name on them and pursued a legal case for
years, but this was very difficult across the west/east divide and the russians
got around the issue by putting Carl Zeiss 'JENA' on their lenses.
These 'Jena' lenses were mostly made for the low end Praktica cameras and are
of generally low end quality with poor build and design. Some of the lenses
have proven to be of good optical design, but these are very much in the
minority and all the lenses suffer from poor build issues and poor longevity.
You can get good results with some of the lenses, but should be aware that they
are nothing like the same build quality as proper Zeiss lenses.
I am stunned at how much some of the M42 Jena lenses are now fetching, indeed
some buyers are now paying almost as much as you would for proper Contax Zeiss
lenses! which does lead me to think they are imagining they are actually buying
the real thing, when they are not.....
cheers Steve.
Uncle Goose , Jul 28, 2007; 07:45 a.m.
Well, we know that. That's enough for me. If the others are dumb or ignorant enough to buy it for real Zeiss lenses then let it be. 99% will never notice it anyway.
Kevin Lui , Jul 28, 2007; 08:15 a.m.
Arh, Zeiss.
I avoid Zeiss because the history of Zeiss is very complicated. Zeiss have too many branches that I don't know which one is make camera or optics.
However, I do trust the quality of Zeiss Jena in pre-war state. But I don't know very much about Opton.
Dan Fromm , Jul 28, 2007; 08:22 a.m.
Y'know, Steve, CZJ in the DDR made many fine lenses. And Zeiss Oberkochen in the BRD made lenses in M42 for, e.g., the Icarex TM.
I don't know what you intended, but you've added more misinformation to the mountains of it already here on photo.net and elsewhere on the Web.
Kelly Flanigan 
, Jul 28, 2007; 08:26 a.m.
There are great and so so Zeiss lenses produced behind the old iron curtain. A blanket damnation of all of them is abit full of bulldung. Jena is the birthplace of a hell of alot of optical designs. In process camera lenses, movie lenses and microscope lenses and some still camera lenses the eastern blocs offerings were often great; often with a radically greater varability in quality control; often priced WAY lower in cost than the West's lenses. If the eastern blocs lenses were not proper Zeiss lenses; were the east Germans really not really Germans? Lenses have been made in Jena for over 100 years. The Optical museum in Jena has optical instruments from eight centuries. There are lenses made with pride in the old eastern bloc; made by Zeiss; real Germans with a super long history of making optics.
Colin Carron 
, Jul 28, 2007; 08:38 a.m.
During the cold war period CZJ were a good source of lenses with a better than average quality / price ratio than usual. They also had a decent build quality but lacked the luxury feel of western product.
Lauren MacIntosh 
, Jul 28, 2007; 09:27 a.m.
If its sharp and it works who really cares for the normal folks , but if your a collecter then you all ready know this stuff, and you do not well ,thats a your problem:
graham powell , Jul 28, 2007; 09:32 a.m.
Without doubt I agree with Kelly 100%. The East German Zeiss lenses were initially made by the same workers that made pre-war Zeiss lenses. Admittedly they may not have had the same standard of quality control in the East, so there are going to be a few more 'duds', but generally, if it looks like a Zeiss, says it is a Zeiss and makes photographs like a Zeiss, then it's probably a Zeiss.
There is also very little difference (if any) between the Pentacon F range of cameras and the Contax S range. They look the same they feel the same and they make photographs of similar quality. Again it's mostly a matter of quality control, so there may be more Pentacon duds out there than Contax duds, but one could buy several Pentacon F cameras for the price of one Contax S cameras and the chances are (as with the lenses) that you will find the first one perfectly satifactory, if not you can easily buy another and another again before you will even come close to the price of a Contax S, or a West German Zeiss lens. Therefore I would say, take a chance, your in grave danger of buying an East German winner!
I think that Steve is in terrific danger of missing a heap full of bargains.
Vincenzo Maielli , Jul 28, 2007; 09:37 a.m.
The Carl Zeiss was born in Jena, eastern Germany, in twenty years of the XX century, by merge of a series of pre existing factories (IKA, Goertz, Contessa Nettel and many others). After the III Reich fall, in 28 June 1945, few hundreds of Carl Zeiss Jena techinicians, engineers and specialized workings, plus their families, escaped from the soviet controlled zone towards the american controlled zone. They estabilished the western Carl Zeiss in Oberchocken, near Stuttgart, while the technicians and engineers who remained in Jena continued to work in the Carl Zeiss Jena, in the same pre war factories. The two parent firms was both existing since 1961, when a court of justice recognized the right to use the Carl Zeiss trade mark only at the Carl Zeiss Stuttgart. From 1961 to late '90 the Carl Zeiss Jena lenses was named CZJ or Aus Jena for the western markets.
The lenses made in Carl Zeiss Jena from 1945 to the end of the production (late '90) are true pre war Carl Zeiss optical projects. Not too modern and perfomer as the western Zeiss lenses, but very good also.
Ciao.
richard oleson , Jul 28, 2007; 10:19 a.m.
This post seems to contain more politics than optics. Carl Zeiss Jena made lenses for the West German Contaxes in the early years before the political situation became too tense for them to continue cooperation, and some of the lenses CZJ made for the Pentacon Six cameras are exceptionally good, including the 80 and 120mm Biometars (the 80mm is very similar to the West German Planar) and the 180 and 30mm Sonnars.
I very strongly suspect that the current prices of CZJ lenses are based primarily on their merits. The ones that I have (35mm Flektagon, several 58mm Biotars, 50mm Flektagon, 80mm Biometar, 180mm Sonnar, perhaps a couple of others) are all very good lenses and certainly well worth what I paid for them.
