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Leica M8

Leica M8

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The dream of many Leica photographers has come true: the Leica M system is now open for professional digital photography. Breaking completely new ground, the LEICA M8 doesn't only look like an M - it utilizes all the benefits of the analog Leica M system for sophisticated and creative digital photography. It is the only digital camera for professionals to incorporate the rangefinder system with its advantages of discreet and quiet operation, speed and precision. And the no-compromise quality criteria of the M system continue to apply to the M8. Full compatibility with nearly all M lenses means that their unique imaging performance is now available for digital photography, too. The low-noise CCD image sensor with a resolution of 10.3 megapixels has been specifically matched to the compact lens design to guarantee superlative photographic quality. The controls and functions of the digital M still concentrate on the essentials. The proven M concept is complemented by the intelligent extra functions that digital technology has to offer. The Leica M8 is the first timeless digital camera "Made in Germany". Fascinatingly new and yet still a real Leica M.Exceptional performance in every detail For Leica, image quality is not only a catchword, but a value attainable by optimizing all the links in the performance chain: Leica's M high performance lenses, now performing even better in the digital system with the new 6-bit coding.

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Photo.net Review Excerpt

Author's Note:

This is my second review of a digital rangefinder camera. Before reading this Leica M8 review, you might take a look at the Epson R-D1 review here on photo.net. I often compare these two cameras, because they are the only two options in existence for someone who wants a digital rangefinder.

Before the Single-Lens-Reflex (SLR) camera, there was the rangefinder camera. From the 1930's into the 1970's, virtually every great 35mm image you can think of was taken with a rangefinder. Hallowed names from the "golden age" of photojournalism all used rangefinders for much (if not all) of their photography, including Robert Capa, Henri Cartier-Bresson, Larry Burrows, and Alfred Eisenstadt. Now, to be fair, the SLR didn't exist yet, so they didn't really have much of a choice. It was either a rangefinder, a big Twin-Lens-Reflex medium format, or 4x5 large format press camera. Unsurprisingly, most photojournalists chose the rangefinder. But even in the auto-focus SLR era, names such as William Albert Allard, David Alan Harvey, and Sebastiao Salgado come to mind as dedicated RF users. So why all the fuss about rangefinders? This is a long and complicated conversation to get into with any photographer who has strong feelings about rangefinders, pro or con. Suffice it to say, one group feels like they are overpriced under-featured relics from photography's past, while the other group feels that they are the last vestige of simple honest photographic tools in an age where auto-everything has become the norm.

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Comments From Review (62)

David W. Griffin , January 18, 2010; 05:27 P.M.

I too wish I could have bought the M8 when I converted to digital, but it took till now for the price of used models to fall to barely attainable levels. It feels like a Leica, works like a Leica, and the images are every bit as good as my M2s gave me. I'm pretty satisfied so far.

I haven't noticed the IR contamination problem, but am looking forward to doing some IR work, so I'm actually pleased it has this "problem." I wish it were 18MP and full frame, but the M8 is everything I need for now. And it's lighter and less bulky than my DSLRs.

J. Steven Ueckert , September 29, 2009; 08:02 A.M.


Sidewalk Seen

Since my comment of June 2, '09, I have acquired the M8.2. I wish I could have had this camera 6 years ago when the limitations of my job forced me from film to digital and I had to set my M6's on a shelf. While no camera is perfect, despite whatever flaws the M8.2 has, it is a very usable camera and it is a Leica.

William Craig , September 28, 2009; 11:25 P.M.

Through reading many a review, this being one of the finest, I have decided to acquire one of these monsters. It may take awhile, considering I am only the prime age of 16, but I think it'll be a nice, fun, and educational tool for me. So thanks, for the wonderful review.

nate johnson , July 07, 2009; 10:06 P.M.


M8 things to know

Shoot back... I' ve shot with M4P and M6's for awhile they are die hard machines and are well designed as we all know. The M8 arrives and much talk of its has many faults but it does have many a plus. The tool or camera is easy to use on the street it is simple. No bells in fact Leica didn't even offer whistles! So things to know the framelines are incorrect period, has nothing to do with coded or non coded lenses. The only lens that is dead on is the 40 summicron but you must file of a small bit of the bayonet ,this brings up the 50 lines and is right on the mark (if you ride the edge of you frame)This also allows the 35 lines to come up in the M6. Using The 28 mm lens you need to use the 24mm framelines, The 21mm is the full frame of the whole window. Also turning on the Lens detection UV+IR will help the color! Why I dont know but we tested it at the Maine Media workshops in Antonin Kratochvil class and it proved to be correct. Upgrades? well that is your choice it seems like a big band aid for a little problem. I traveled/worked with the M8 for 1 year now in USA, Europe and South East Asia the camera performed flawless! The new firmware helps some with the noise but it still is a electronic camera and not a mechanical camera,Buy the grip and extra batteries and just shoot back.

Jake P , June 04, 2009; 03:11 P.M.

M8.2 Design Shortcomings

I'm glad I have this camera because I want a digital Leica, but there are things I do not like. Factors that determine mechanical control of the camera can too easily be inadvertently changed on the M8, M8.2. The camera is a changeling. It is not something that I can have firm faith in—that it is what I think it is; that settings haven’t changed without my realizing it. I feel a bit like I am groping and hoping with my M8.2. I do not experience the confidence I enjoy with my M6.

I don’t feel as sure about composition as I do with the frame lines my M6.

I find the protruding menu buttons annoying. They are too easily pressed and therefore too easily trigger the menu. I wish they were shorter and guarded like the lens release button. Leica could easily sculpt this excellent, proven design to surround the menu buttons.

The User Profile can inadvertently and too easily be turned on and reset, resulting in loss of preferred settings of EV and Compression. This happened to me in bright sun, when I wanted to change ISO quickly. Since the menu was on without me realizing it, my button selection sequence became confused. DNGs became JPGs and EV was reset to “0.” It took me a while to figure out that settings had changed, let alone why; wrecked my day. User Profile should be a little less accessible, perhaps in the Menu rather than under the Set button.

Another thing I'm not crazy about is the shutter speed dial. I wish it had a detente position so I could feel where it is without looking at it, as with my M6. [It’s something I appreciated in my Nikkormat—the shutter speed lever was at a 15th when it lay over the lens release button. I could count and feel my way up and down the speed scale.] The large M8 dial turns too freely when inserting or withdrawing the camera from the carrying bag, either by friction from contact against the interior wall of the bag, or by a grazing finger when releasing the camera into the bag, or reaching to grasp it in the bag, rather like the mode dial on the D70. On my M6, the smaller diameter shutter speed dial is inset, preventing inadvertent changes. Shutter speed is changed only by deliberate action.

I’d like to mention the element of digital psychology. I think and shoot full frame with my M6, but without a rebate to frame my digital shots, the discipline it imposes on cropping is lost. Rebate is a signature on each frame.

Leica should be an extension of the photographer. The M8 and M8.2 make the photographer an extension of the camera.

J. Steven Ueckert , June 02, 2009; 10:15 A.M.

Though nearly a year has passed, I find this review timely. Thanks for your efforts, update and the comments of many here.

I have gone through nearly a dozen M bodies from my first M3 in 1973 through a pair of M6's (.72 & .85) that I still have. I am working towards putting together a compact darkroom so that I can once again work with Tri-X and my Leicas. I already have a film scanner acquired to digitize past work.

As I already had a few lenses, and the original views/reviews of the M8 were less than stellar (Michael Kamber among others) I was hesitant to spend the money to acquire an M8. Not that I couldn't, but I wouldn't. A few months ago I did, finally, get a R-D1s. It has its quirks, but it is not a bad camera. Just as the M2 with a Leicameter MR is a dated version of the M6, either in the hands of one who is determined can make comparable images. So it is with the Epson digital rangefinder, (in my opinion.) Arguments made by some that at 6 mp the sensor is too small obviously never worked with any of the early digital SLRs up through the Canon EOS 1D (Mk I) or Nikon D1H, both of which had 4 meg sensors. I can easily make a quality 16 X 20 from an ISO 200 Raw file from my R-D1s. As such it is big enough for me.

But while the Epson R-D1s is a working digital RF, it isn't a Leica. The same analogy can be made that the Nikon SP and Canon 7S were quality RF cameras, but they weren't a M3 or M2.

My appetite is yet to be fully satisfied for a digital M body. The M8 just isn't enough of an improvement over the Epson to justify acquiring one. I am now considering the M8.2, even with its 1.33x crop. I wish Leica would once and for all commit to either bringing out a full frame sensor (24 x 36mm) or kill the rumors once and for all. Of course I seem to recall a discussion years ago that Leica wouldn't be doing a digital M body, then I guess Epson forced their hand.

As far as needing an IR filter to use the M8/M8.2, my response is, so what? I regularly used either yellow or orange filters on my lenses for my M6's when I was shooting B&W and keep UV filters on them otherwise. That's always been a plus for a RF shooter, one can use the R60 (red) filter and still see unfettered through the viewfinder. And for those who take issue with needing a filter on an expensive camera/lens combination to get a quality image, my guess is they have never worked in large format with an ultra wide angle lens. If you are into swings and tilts with a 75 Grandagon-N or Super Angulon, you might want to consider using the correct graduated ND filter to maintain consistent illumination to the edges of the frame.

Will I make the leap to the M8.2, I'm not yet completely sold. The Epson R-D1s is not too bad of a camera, I have made many images with it that I consider "keepers." The failing of the Epson body is its short RF base and associated lack of focussing accuracy with longer or faster lenses. As a body behind either the Voigtlander 15mm, Zeiss Distagon 18mm, Voigtlander 28mm/f-1.9 or 35mm Summicron, it works well enough. The 21mm/f-3.4 Super Angulon was tried once and permanently returned to the M6, it vignettes too much even for correction in PS CS3. But until I actually use the digital M, I will still be mighty curious as to its potential.

Image Attachment: fileoofSgH.jpg

Clemens M , May 13, 2009; 05:36 P.M.

The M9 will be mine - provided Leica puts a 16-20MP full 24x36 sensor into it. The old 10MP crop sensor is really outdated.

BEVERLY MENESES , May 11, 2009; 11:39 P.M.

Is there a way i can set my leica m8 to black and white?

Michael C , March 21, 2009; 12:50 P.M.

Excellent, well-written article and review! I fall into the category of one of those long-time Leica-owner wannabes, but as most people, have had to watch the $.

I had the pleasure of working with an M6 several years ago, and fell in love with Leicas! For some reason, when I had that thing in my hands, it just inspired me, and my artistic juices began to flow!

I hope to soon be getting an M8, as it will fit very well into my type of photography (fine art). I currently use an Olympus Evolt, and while it is a wonderful camera, I am getting of the age that the myriad of technologies and multi-use buttons just don't do it for me. Give me the good old-school contols that I learned photography on, along with the nicety of digital!

Dennis Ng , March 01, 2009; 08:09 A.M.

Might need some updates now RD1x is out.

Andrew Milbourn , February 07, 2009; 04:46 P.M.

If you want to try your hand at rangefinders you could get the Russian immitation Leica, the Zorki 4 35mm camera. I think they are going for $50 on ebay. I had one for several years as a teenager. They are good in low light as they can be handheld at very low speeds and have relatively fast lenses.

Andrew Milbourn , February 07, 2009; 04:45 P.M.

If you want to try your hand at rangefinders you could get the Russian immitation Leica, the Zorki 4 35mm camera. I think they are going for $50 on ebay. I had one for several years as a ateenager. They are good in low light as they can be handheld at very low speeds and have relatively fast lenses.

Bob Dickerson , January 07, 2009; 06:34 A.M.

I purchased a M8.2 after being favorablly impressed with the images from my D-LUX 4. To my eye, the images produced using the M8.2 are no better than those produced by the D-LUX4. I've sold the M8.2 and sundry equipment in favor of the D-LUX, I'll buy a Titan if I can find one...

CPeter Jørgensen , December 23, 2008; 07:18 P.M.

If you need fixer, here is the formula for Kodak Rapid Fixer concentrate. You can make it yourself. All the chemicals are available from commercial chemical supply houses on the web,

PART A: 40-45 Water (007732-18-5) 40-45 Ammonium Thiosulfate (007783-18-8) 5-10 Sodium Acetate (000127-09-3) 1-5 Boric Acid (010043-35-3) 1-5 Ammonium Sulfite (010196-04-0) 1-5 Acetic Acid (000064-19-7) PART B: 70-75 Water (007732-18-5) 15-20 Aluminum Sulfate (010043-01-3) 11 Sulfuric Acid (007664-93-9)

WORKING SOLUTION (FILM): 80-85 Water (007732-18-5) 10-15 Ammonium Thiosulfate (007783-18-8) 1-5 Sodium Acetate (000127-09-3) <1 Boric Acid (010043-35-3) <1 Ammonium Sulfite (010196-04-0) <1 Acetic Acid (000064-19-7)

Robert Gordon , December 22, 2008; 06:04 A.M.

Changing the subject slightly, as a Leica M6 owner and user, I'm interested in your advice to "buy a brick of Tri-X." Why Tri-X and not Ilford or Kodak CN?

Aa friend who runs a photo lab told me that at a recent dealers' show he learned that Fuji plans to stop producing their C41 photo-finishing machine in the near future. That means we will have to either purchase C41 kits or resort to film like Tri-X. The latter is the route I plan to go.

As an aside: I live in Michigan and am finding it difficult to purchase fixer. B&H says fixer is an in-store item only. Finally, Calumet in Chicago sold me some. Is this situation a function of state statutes and case law?

Roberto Moreira , December 18, 2008; 10:50 P.M.

Gee, I sure must have made a mistake. I got an M8 and was happily pleased with the results until I read the comments here. How can I possibly produce fine photographs with a camera some 'sages' don't like? Ignorance is bliss I guess.

Paul Bartholomew , December 15, 2008; 10:00 A.M.

I've heard nothing but good things about the Leica M8 and I'm sure Leica will improve upon it. They have become agressive recently with developement of the new S2 system and I'm sure the new findings will help the traditional side of Leica such as the M series.

I have yet to update my M lenses for digital compatibility but may wait till a new body comes out. Perhaps a better M body with higher resolution. It will be a while I'm sure.

nate johnson , December 14, 2008; 05:58 P.M.

Wonderful review honest and answers the scary M8 questions

Roy Skridlov , November 05, 2008; 08:50 A.M.

Any way you look at it, the price is simply insane. A gold-plated tap amongst cameras.

Torben Daltoft , October 23, 2008; 12:40 A.M.

Lousy!

Jorge Diaz , October 12, 2008; 05:53 P.M.

I can't read all the comments but I 'd like to point out an underlooked strength of the rangefinder lens vs. the SLR lens.The modern SLR lens has a hard working diaphragm....This means the diaphragm,for the most part is fully open (blades retracted) to allow for a usable brighter viewfinder.Shoot and the diaphragm goes to work...It snaps into chosen aperture and back to full retraction very fast.In fast cameras it means it repeats this cycle many times per second.Now think.What can it do to diaphragm blades and the springs that keep them retracted ? I have photos that sometimes show weak resolution over the corners .Sometimes they don't. I surmise that what happens is that the leafs don't aways open symmetrically. Actually most of the SLR lenses I have never open symmetrically.The Leica lenses I have do.Even the Summar from the 1930s.

Nuno Borges , September 27, 2008; 01:21 P.M.

As far as its sensors are not full frame I don't think a rangefinder will succeed.

Peter Hamm , September 26, 2008; 09:59 A.M.

As a non-Leica user I am mystified by the idea that anybody would want to spend that much money on a camera that requires a special filter to make your lenses work right.

That alone makes me think that Leica needs an M9 to remain viable.

El Fang , September 18, 2008; 08:34 P.M.

Since Michael Kamber is mentioned in the comments area of this review I think it is only fair that his original review be linked. To add some balance to predictable gushing of amateurs here and elsewhere, people might also be interested in hearing input from working professionals who actually rely on these tools to get the job done: Leica M8 - is it any good? and Leica M8.2. Several Lightstalkers members also have their own take on the Kamber M8 review.

John Lovelace , September 18, 2008; 03:13 P.M.

Changing the subject slightly, as a Leica M6 owner and user, I'm interested in your advice to "buy a brick of Tri-X." Why Tri-X and not Ilford or Kodak CN?

Image Attachment: filevjstUX.jpg

Dick Arnold , September 13, 2008; 05:45 P.M.

Josh I have gained added respect for you as a writer and reviewer. Better by far than the horde of reviewers on the net. I had a rangefinder that was a Minolta that was a dead on knockoff of a post WWII Leica. I forgot the model number. I lost it when it was launched out of a motorcycle saddle bag after hitting a very deep pothole in Thailand during the Viet war. It had a 50mm lens and nothing else. It was convenient, easy to use and I got good pictures. I wish I had it back vice the forty pound camera bag I carry around now as I don't think all this crap makes me any better just more flexible and versatile with more control over my picture process but five grand to get a magenta cast is a little steep.

Marco Maroccolo , August 24, 2008; 03:21 A.M.

One of the best review of the M8 out there. Many thanks Josh.

Mark Gay , August 23, 2008; 05:52 P.M.

Sometimes people who really know stuff get to post on the Internet. Josh Root’s review of the M8 is one such post.

There is much plain, unarguable logic in this review. This bit was so well said, it made me laugh:

“So, if you are worried about dead batteries leaving you hanging, you should be using a film camera, and not a digital anyway.”

When the partly electronic M7 came out, there were hours, days and months on the Internet worrying about batteries. ‘What if I buy an M7 and my batteries die. Surely I should buy a fully manual MP?’ I’m sure many of those same people now use digitals without a care in the world but they've found other things to obsess about.

“People who require super-accurate framing need to get a SLR with a 100% finder. For the rest of us, we just learn to be a little loose with our composition when using a RF camera and understand that we may have to crop later to get the exact image we were looking for.”

And

“If you are used to the fancy 100 point metering systems in today's DSLR's, this basic metering may confuse you. But 30 minutes with a 1980's photography "how to" book will bring you up to speed. likewise, the simple aperture priority exposure mode is not nearly as fancy as what you will find on a Nikon D300. But it works perfectly once you understand what it can and cannot do.

“It bears repeating that the real advantage to these systems is that once you know how to use them, they will not surprise you. The same cannot be said for some other digital cameras these days.”

I sympathized wholeheartedly with this:

“If you are the kind of person who cannot imagine spending $5400 on a camera that was not perfect in every way, you should probably keep walking. I'm not sure where you will end up (Canon and Nikon have their own issues even at that price point), but it sure won't be here in M8-land.”

One criticism:

“The M8 does have some flaws, the most glaring of which is the magenta/IR light issue. It is hard to imagine a camera from Canon or Nikon making it all the way to production with a flaw like that.”

Uh, they most certainly did. Anyone who insists magenta casts is purely an M8 problem doesn’t read very widely.

I have one comment to add about the M8’s design that I don’t think anyone has raised before. Why is the shutter dial recessed on the M8 when on the M7 the same size dial aligns with the front of the camera body and is thus much easier to spin?

The M7’s frame counter, shutter release, and speed dial are centred on one line, neat and accessible. The M8’s shutter release is ahead of the speed dial, forcing you to curve your finger slightly to reach the dial. Why?

A thorough reading of this review would save a lot of space on the net:

“If you are sitting there saying to yourself, "I could buy a Nikon D3 and a nice lens for the price of that M8 body," then you probably aren't who Leica is aiming at with the M8. The person who buys an M8 isn't likely to see the D3 as a suitable alternative because the D3 is not a rangefinder.

“To a rangefinder nut, hearing someone say something like that is as strange as a sports car nut hearing someone say, "Uh, for the price of the Lotus, you could buy a Ford F350 4x4 diesel." Why would a sports car nut do something like that?”

As to those who ask why review a camera two years after its release, why not? Even if the camera doesn't change, our perceptions, our standards change. This review suggests the M8 meets the challenge even better than it did when released.

Zapata Espinoza , August 09, 2008; 07:26 A.M.

>In this day and age, it's both reprehensible and shocking that Leica's idea of correcting the problem is to tell their customers to use a filter. <

well, Leica OWNERS like to wear the duncecap round the neck.

L DaSousa , August 01, 2008; 05:25 P.M.

I see where you have defended your statements. However you say

From the 1930's into the 1970's, virtually every great 35mm image you can think of was taken with a rangefinder.

Yet everyone who is aware of the iconic images from the 1960s including Vietnam, the American Hippie, politic, and music culture (Linda McCartney for one example of a photographer) is aware that a large proportion of those were captured by Nikon F SLR, and some as well with Pentax (much of McCartney's for example).

You also say

Hallowed names from the "golden age" of photojournalism all used rangefinders for much (if not all) of their photography, including Robert Capa, Henri Cartier-Bresson, Larry Burrows, and Alfred Eisenstadt. Now, to be fair, the SLR didn't exist yet

Which is technically false and quite different from saying that they were not commercially successful. I do not intend to be argumentive, however if you intend your review not only for those who are familiar with it, but for the unfamiliar as well, you may see where such a person, confronted at the start by glaring historical inaccuracy, might doubt the credibility of that what follows. Which would be most unfortunate because it is indeed a good and just review.

Josh Root , July 30, 2008; 01:11 P.M.

I have updated a few things on the review:

  • Fixed grammatical errors and typos.
  • Added USD to upgrade prices.
  • Added some Leica marketing-speak and link to M8 specifications.
  • Uploaded Jamie's CaptureOne profiles to the PN server and added link to them.
  • Added an image that shows result of using Jamie's CaptureOne profiles.
  • Clarified viewfinder/frameline situation.
  • "Which left all available (low) light RF photogs in the 60ies, 70ies, and 80ies, to work with the pre-asph 1.4/35mm only. Hm. I cannot quite follow." This is a result of a typo. I had meant to say "f2 and faster" rather than "faster than f/2" and "50mm and wider" rather than "wider than 50mm". Changes have been made.

Things I did not change:

  • "No, no, and...no. The IR issue can fixed - and fixed permanently through the use of filters." Adding a filter to a lens does not "fix" a problem with a camera body. It is just a workaround. If there was a way to add a filter to the body, THAT might be considered a "fix".
  • "The SLR existed since 1930s (Korelle). Many, many 35mm SLRs existed prior to 1970s" The SLR was not commercially successful until the very end of the 1950's. And just like digital, working photographers did not jump to the "new toy" the instant it came out. RF cameras held strong through the 60's.
  • "Eisenstadt for certain used other than rangefinder. He used Nikon and Rollei also." I did not say that they only used RF cameras. Many photographers use multiple cameras. But these guys were well known to have been RF photographers.
  • "David Alan Harvey has stated he uses Nikon DSLR" Here's a video of DAH working in Cuba that shows him very clearly using his M's. He may use DSLR's now. But that doesn't erase the past.
  • "Can you change the second sentence? 'From 1930 into the 1970's...' I guess it should be 1950s, not 1970s. By then SLRs were widely used in photojournalism." As previously discussed, SLR's were not "widely" used in the 1950's and the 60's were a decade of flux for RF/SLR. Given that the first SLR truly popular with PJ's was the 1959 Nikon F, this should be pretty obvious.
  • "Larry Burrows used one in Vietnam, for example." I'm not going to say that Larry Burrows didn't use an SLR. But on page 221 of "Larry Burrows: Vietnam" (a great book) you can see him with 2 M's around his neck (and a 3rd unknown camera, likely an SLR) in 1971 and here you can see his M3 recovered from the crash where he died. But thanks for reminding me about Burrows, I have added him to the list of RF photographers in the opening section.

Tom Rose , July 27, 2008; 10:55 A.M.

The price of an M8 buys me 500 rolls of film and pays to develop them. If I buy B&W in bulk and develop it myself that is more like 1000 rolls. Heck the INTEREST on the price of an M8 gets me 50 rolls of B&W film every year, and the chemicals to develop them. These days I shoot about a roll a week on average. Unless the price of film goes stratospheric guess I'll just carry on using my M6 and a scanner. With the bonus that I have no worries about backups.

Andrew Frackman , July 26, 2008; 07:14 P.M.

I recently used an M8 for 10 days in Israel. I usually shoot digital with a D200, although I use an M6 for film. I cannot stand carrying around the D200 with a good Nikon lens. The whole apparatus seems to be getting heavier and heavier. The Leica, of course, purports to solve the problem, in part. But, as we rangefinder users know, the rangefinder, whether it be the M6 or an M8 is no substitute for the versatility of a DSLR. I thought the M8 performed very well. Very much like my M6 in handling. Not having used an M7, I was not familiar with using aperture priority on a Leica. It seemed to work quite well once I got accustomed to it. The other nits that other reviewers have mentioned all ring true. Of course, my 35mm lens will not suffice on the M8, so I had to also rent, and would have to buy, a new shorter lens to get the 35mm aspect and experience of the M6. The battery life is not as good as on my Nikon. The internal software seems a bit clunkier, but it was not a problem since I use the on-bard software for little as I am a Lightroom user. I found the metering a bit tricky, to tell the truth. I know it should not be, having used an M6 for several years, but I really needed a full week to get the hang of it and to replicate the success of my Nikon. As for form, I love the Leica, but I thought keeping the Leica bottom was a bit silly. I understand why Leica did it, and why some die-hards would want it, but it is not really convenient. The images seemed very good. Whether they are $4,000 better than my Nikon with a fine Nikon lens is another question altogether. (I am still comparing the images, so perhaps I will have more to add on this.) The real issue for me is size and weight. And here, the M8 performs well and solves my needs quite well. Can it truly be that there is no alternative for serious photographers who do not want to shlep around that big Nikon or Canon and the heavy glass lenses? Perhaps that alone is worth the expense of the Leica. If I thought that film had a future, I would stick to my M6, continue to digitize my slides and images and forget it. Alas, we all know where film is headed, and unless I come up with a good solution to the weight problem other than the M8, I may just have to bite the bullet.

Anthony Brookes , July 23, 2008; 06:13 A.M.

Thanks Josh for a common-sense review. Everything you say about rangefinder cameras is true and when I tried the M8 your comments rang all the bells. I'm not worried about the magenta issue as I'm mainly B&W. The M8 is a great camera but the price is disproportionate to say the orginal rangefinders (say a Leica III) by about 20%. When I have enough cash I shall buy one without hesitation. Maybe I should sell my other 35mm and 6x6 cameras to fund it.

Marc Rochkind , July 22, 2008; 07:48 P.M.

Can you change the second sentence? "From 1930 into the 1970's, virtually every great 35mm image you can think of was taken with a rangefinder." I guess it should be 1950s, not 1970s. By then SLRs were widely used in photojournalism. Larry Burrows used one in Vietnam, for example.

Andy Piper , July 22, 2008; 05:03 A.M.

After 20 months, this review and the responses are sort of picking the scab off the M8's - uhh, unique - features. But a good job, Josh, regardless.

For me, it boils down to two simple facts. I find it less tiresome to do my own focusing than ride herd on some AF system with a mind of its own. And - if I never look at a ground glass for the rest of my life, it will be no loss to me whatever.

For all that some people think Leica is "all about the glass" - for me it is "all about the viewfinder".

The M8's image quality is at least AS good as any comparably-pixeled camera - except the big-sensor, big-pixel Canon 5D and Nikon D3/D700 at high ISOs (no question). And that's enough for me. The extra bucks go for the mechanical RF and the big bright viewfinder and the M-mount that takes those tiny lenses - just as they have for 30 years or more - not necessarily for some cosmically better image quality.

I don't even bother with the ASPH/APO/WHATEVER lenses - all mine are roughly 30-year-old designs that are plenty sharp and cost under $1000 each (usually well under).

Bottom line - if you are happy with SLRs, you're in fat city and can ignore the M8. If you like SLRs but think there might be something to this Leica glass business - well maybe there is, but not enough to make it worthwhile going with a camera style that is very much NOT an SLR.

A note on the frameline accuracy: The M8 frames are VERY accurate - when the lenses are used at their closest focusing distance. They become progressively less accurate the further you are from your subject.

I won't get into the optical reasons - but lenses "zoom" slightly as one focuses closer, and with an RF, that is not ttl viewing, the framelines are right only at one point in the zooming.

This was in fact also true of film Leicas, but was masked somewhat by things like slide mounts and negative carriers and the "normal" cropping of minilabs or magazine pages.

In digital we are used to having the whole image available - and Leica messed up in not recognizing that they could shave something off the safety factor that film used to need (unless you printed full-frame, black-border, which most people didn't).

As to the magenta/IR thing - Leica had good and specific reasons to order their Kodak sensors with thin IR filters. From an engineering standpoint WITH THE EXISTING Leica wideangle lenses - they made the correct choice. It was not a "mistake" in that regard. Their lenses ported from film days perform better if the filter glass covering the sensor is as thin as possible. End of story.

Where they DID screw up was in not realizing that they needed to be up-front about the "special needs" of the M8 for color work - perhaps blinded by the common prejudice that Leica rangefinders are "B&W cameras". They just figured most people wouldn't notice - Ooops!

Bottom line - RFs have (barely) survived because of their effect on the psychology of the taking of the picture - the moment, the all-sharp view, the simplicity. Once the button has been pushed and the moment passed, any advantage an RF has is gone. Was true with film - still true with digital.

If that has no special value - stick with SLRs. If it DOES have value - the M8 is the only current game in digital.

Peter Kowalchuk, July 21, 2008; 06:03 P.M.

I made the jump from M film to the M8 more than a year ago. The camera...and Leica...make me angry. My framelines are so far off that, instead of this being a 10Mp camera, it's more like a 7Mp camera. No more a camera for the decisive moment...this an "indecisive moment" camera. I'm a B&W guy, so I usually haven't have a problem with the magenta issue...until two weeks ago, that is. Then it hit and I was not able to reshoot (shooting color). I have a lot of money in Leica glass and love it. However, Leica's response to my frameline issue ("you experienced it with your M7, you just didn't realize it because of the delay in seeing your images") has so angered me (because it's just crap and so disrespectful of a long-time Leica user) that I'm going to sell the whole kit and kaboodle. Yes, the image quality is great, but gone is the ability to know...even though I'm not looking through the lens...what I will end up with when I click the shutter. I've read...and stopped reading...many of the discussions about Leica because so many seem monopolized by the Leica bashers who've never held the camera, much less made a photograph with one. But after more than a year of trial-and-error shooting with one, I feel I've earned the right to complain. Enough. Good photo making, all. Peter

Miklos Szorenyi , July 21, 2008; 03:46 P.M.

I totally agree with Arturo Canalda; Leica M has changed my photography. I can't tell how much more excited I am to photograph with Leicas than with dSLRs. I just pray that my M8 won't break down on me one day. But then I still go back to my M6.

L DaSousa , July 21, 2008; 12:49 P.M.

A few corrections to note.

-The SLR existed since 1930s (Korelle). Many, many 35mm SLRs existed prior to 1970s, Nikon F of 1959 was the most obvious but there were others.

-Eisenstadt for certain used other than rangefinder. He used Nikon and Rollei also.

-David Alan Harvey has stated he uses Nikon DSLR

-There is no question the M8 sound is more evident than the M7. Mostly this is not the sound of the shutter himself but instead it is the motor which resets the shutter after each picture.

PC B , July 21, 2008; 06:26 A.M.

"...Given that the strength of rangefinder photography has always been it's [its..] wide angle (shorter than 50mm) available light (faster than f/2) abilities,... "

Which left all available (low) light RF photogs in the 60ies, 70ies, and 80ies, to work with the pre-asph 1.4/35mm only. Hm. I cannot quite follow.

Neither can I follow those who think available/low light photography is defined by using 1600 ISO and up. In my memory it is not very long ago that ISO800 negative films gave dead ugly results and pushing slides to 800 gave 'that look' which only the 'journalistically inclined' liked. So, nobody did low light photography in these days? Ok they pushed - to get night shots on side streets or 'a picture' in red light bars. But only then.

All candle light pictures in Nat.Geo. were made on 200/400ISO slide film (maybe pushed +1 in the 90ies) plus some deep thinking about lighting, getting a stable shooting position, even posing, respectively instructing the subject and so forth. Think about it.

Going up to Leica2500/NiCa3200 is most often just cheap - even for theatre photogs. And simply a macho thing for all those ridiculous 'prosumers'. After the megapixel wars here we are in the midst of the high ISO war. Photography itself nowhere to be seen.

David Carreño , July 21, 2008; 03:47 A.M.

Hello Josh,

thanx for your nice review. Nevertheless I tell you my complaints to you and the rest of the persons reading this review. IMHO the first wrong step of Leica was that the M8 wasn't sufficiently tested by photographers. The Viewfinder lines for an 24 elmarit are confusing and you get such a different pic then you see it that cropping is a must. The other thing I don't understand how come that voigtlaender can produce rf cameras with an viewfinder for 21 mm lenses but leica can't. As they have done before they could deliver the m8 with different viewfinders so people who want to use a 28 (21 mm) can at least use it without an external vf. I don't think I'm expecting a lot of problematic improvement and this issues could have been covered for the first release if there would be a bit of listening of the professional industry. But it's not only leica that isn't listening. Canon, Nikon and Olympus also don't take care of this segment. Just remember the first model of compacts they delivered. I think of the Olympus 7070, Nikon 8400 and Canon G3. Manual controls positioned well and not in the menu, movable lcd. Really a backup for serious amateurs and professionals. Obviously improvements were needed but they didnt care. Instead they deliver poorer and sensless models like g9, 9600 and for olympus I dont even know. I would love that someone takes in consideration a compact bridge camera. the sigma dp1 was a good step but still without listening what the conscious photogs want.

Anthony Robins , July 20, 2008; 06:22 A.M.

I checked out the M8 as soon as ever i could, being a keen Leica user, and having a few lenses already. I didn't buy it for a couple of reasons. First, there was a caveat with everything: "yes, you can use your existing lenses but..." etc., and my favourite combination is M6 and 35mmF2 Summicron, and I couldn't see how i was going to get an equivalent 35mm look.

But secondly, when i picked it up and used it, I was underwhelmed. My experience of using my Leicas ever since my pristine second hand IIIf has been the joy in my heart every time I pick it up and use it. Of course the results are fantastic, but it's also about the process of creating those results. It just wasn't there with the M8, and that's an awful lot of money for a so-so feeling and a camera that I won't be using in 5 years time.

This second point is fundamental for me. I make my living from photography, and the blunt honest truth is that the vast majority of my clients are perfectly happy with the shots from my dslrs. They become images quickly in Lightroom and Photoshop, and it's quick and easy. I've got the hang of making autofocus work for me now, and the lenses are good enough. So when I shoot with the Leicas, it's to go on film, usually black and white, and I shoot it because i love to. I send the shots on to the client a few days later when they're developed and scanned, and they're usually delighted, because it's a bonus, it's the icing on the cake. The point is, in purely practical terms, I just couldn't see where the M8 would fit in, or what it would replace and do better.

I'd love Leica to come out with a new worldbeater, but it would have to be something new; a new concept in photography. The existing approaches are sewn up, and the M8 seems to be jumping up and down on the sidelines.

Steve Swinehart , July 19, 2008; 09:35 P.M.

"The M8 has the same viewfinder as the excellent one in the M7."

No - it does NOT have the same viewfinder as the M7. A new finder had to be designed specifically to account for the 1.3 factor with the lenses. While it may share some features in common with the M7 finder it is not the same finder.

"M8 does have some flaws, the most glaring of which is the magenta/IR light issue. "

No, no, and...no. The IR issue can fixed - and fixed permanently through the use of filters.

The most glaring problem with this camera is far and away the viewfinder which, with wide angle lenses, can have framing errors of 20%. Thankfully, you get more image, rather than less - but, with 28mm and shorter lenses, tight, accurate composition with a single exposure is impossible.

And, of course, as the distance varies between you and the subject - so does the viewfinder error and how you have to compensate for it. This means you cannot make tight compositions without "chimping" the LCD viewfinder to confirm the composition - and then shooting the subject again....chimping...shooting....just perfect for recording those serendipitous, fleeting moments.....

In fact, the wide Tri-Elmar with its separate viewfinder is far more accurate than the camera's viewfinder and a 28mm lens. I've spoken to Leica representatives about this, and the answer I got was that the current viewfinder is a completely new design to account for the crop factor - and it was the best they could do within the product development timeline to meet the introduction date.

Fine - in that case they obviously don't take photographs - they only design cameras, because if they did take photographs, the viewfinder would be accurate with all lenses.

scott kirkpatrick , July 19, 2008; 10:12 A.M.

I've been using the M8 since jan 2007, M2 long before that. I like the handling, the lack of an AA filter leading to exquisite detail and the contrasty Leica (and Zeiss) lenses that render this detail in the midtones. Bill Parsons, a Boston photog, is putting together a book with shots from the first year of the M8, contributed on the Leica User Forum. I have a gallery of M8 samples ranging from the first shots with Canon and Leica lenses from the 1950s to the present day ASPH wonders, at www.pbase.com/skirkp/leica_m8_samples . View them from back to front if you are interested in the current generation lenses.

scott

Alex S. , July 19, 2008; 08:39 A.M.

Well, I see I missed on paragraph spacing toward the end.

Meant to ask, Josh. I did you actually buy an M8 or borrow one?

Another thing I must note. There has a evolved on photo.net a M8 hate cult. These are not angry ex-M8 owners or legitimate camera tests. They seem to be people who are using the M8 as an excuse to be mean-spirited.

Alex S. , July 19, 2008; 08:31 A.M.

The following was originally a response to Michael Kamber’s “Leica M8 Field Test: Iraq” that appeared in a thread discussing that article in the Leica and Rangefinder Photography Forum beginning June 10, 2008. I have cleaned up a number of typos and minor amibuities and cut out extraneous asides, but have changed nothing else.

As an M8 owner since January 2007 I am familiar with the camera's foibles described in Kamber's article. I cannot say whether or not the M8 is for Iraq. I can offer comment on a few of my experiences that match and do not match Kamber's. Before discussing the M8 I want to say that, unlike Kamber, I have had no trouble with my M7, bought used at Tamarkin in New York back in August 2005. It had been serviced by Leica and carried a one-year warranty. Kamber's bad experiences with his M7 is not unique I know. Happily they have not been mine. Now to the M8.

Noise is a problem at ISO 2500 and, to a leaser extent, at ISO 1200 but not so much at ISO 650 in my experience. With film it is generally true that the higher the ISO is the more grain you get. I recently shot a production of Hamlet at my university with a loaner M8 (more on that later) set at ISO 2500, my Epson RD-1s set at ISO 1600 and my M7 loaded with Fuji ISO 1600 color film. Scanned, the film was noisier than the M8 at ISO 2500 and the RD- 1s at ISO 1600. The M8 and RD-1s were about equal in noise.

For this theater performance (as others) I was sitting close to the stage. Because of this I had to use fairly quiet rangefinder cameras so as not to disturb the actors and the audience. High ISOs were unavoidable because of the dim lighting.

Kamber mentions the M8’s inaccurate frames. Indeed, he is right. In my recent article, "M8: 75 = 85?", in "Viewfinder" (Vol. 41, No 1, 2008) I proved that the M8's 75mm frames are ipso facto 85mm frames. I have calculated that the best lens of the 50mm frames would be 58mm. But that said, I've been cheerfully using my Summilux 75/1.4 on my M8 and am grateful for the latitude the 75mm frames afford. The Voigtlander 25/4P works brilliantly with the M8's 24mm frame lines. Kamber also mentions banding and odd colors. Last year when I shot A Midsummer Night's Dream at my university the color rendition in the theater (actually a gym) was so bad that I switched to black and white. I got extensive banding with ISO 2500. This year in shooting Hamlet the loaner M8 rendered color generally very well with the white balance set at Auto (the best I found for the complex lighting) and I got no banding. I have since shot my returned and repaired M8 at ISO 2500 and experienced no banding so far. Colors seem to equal the good-to-excellent color renditions I got when shooting Hamlet under very difficult lighting conditions.

Kamber says he often accidentally hits his M8 into self-timer mode with his flack jacket. This has not happened to me once. I do not wear a flack jacket, however, and cannot judge.

He also says that he was accidentally setting the ISO to 2500 with his flack jacket. I do not see how this is possible. I can see inadvertently activating “Set” with the flack jacket but changing ISO requires a separate right hand action that I don't think a flack jacket could do.

Kamber touches on a number of the M8’s quirks and build quality issues. The M8 has one quirk that Leica has not solved. Sometimes it freezes or shuts down and you have to take the bottom plate off, take out and put back the battery and then all is well. I’ve dealt with this. It is not what you want to do in the heat of battle in Iraq. I’ve had a few major build quality issues with my M8. I had to send it out for repair when I got a nasty line in all of my pictures. The M8 had other problem. Heating up for no apparent reason a few times was my most major concern. I sent my M8 to Leica Japan in Tokyo in March 2008 and received a loaner M8 the next day. Except for that quirk of occasionally freezing up, its performance was flawless. I got my M8 back in mid-May. My returned M8 has been functioning well at this writing ( July 18 2008).

There are other issues Kamber mentions that have to do with irksome design aspects. One is having to disembowel the M8 to change SD cards--a pain when your SD card is about to be confiscated because you shot illegal scenes. For me this has not been a problem, bearing in mind that I operate in Japan where I only have to be on the watch for knife-wielding maniacs. Kamber complains that you don't get a 35mm camera’s 28mm equivalent frame lines in the M8 and that using a 21mm lens with a 28mm external viewfinder is a drag because, among other things, it gives him too much depth of field. This is a problem of practically all digital cameras. That is why I pair my M8 and with a film M camera. I suggest using the Voigtlander 25/4P with the 24mm frame. It is almost equal to 28mm in a 35mm camera and offers less of a problem with depth of field than a 21mm lens acting as a 28mm lens. Kamber complains about strange exposures and off-colors with the M8. Yes, sometimes the M8's exposure is way off. I think the problem is that one sometimes inadvertently presses half-way when shooting, thus engaging the exposure lock. I've learned to only lightly touch the shutter release button (equipped with Mini-Softie) before shooting. I believe that with the various downloadable upgrades the color problem has been solved to a great extent.

Dreadful exposure compensation controls on the M8 are another Kamber complaint. I couldn't agree more. But the camera’s controls in general are very straightforward. Did Leica release the M8 too early? I believe it did. It needed at least another year of testing. Am I sorry I bought the M8? No. I like the thing in spite of its quirks. Most of the time it works well. Am I sorry I did not wait a year to buy my M8? No, no, no. It was about a thousand cheaper back then.

I guess my biggest regret in having the M8 is that my film cameras are underused.

Hamlet: M8 + Summilux 50/1.4 L9991723

Paris, Winter 2007: M8 + Summicron 35/2 L1001625

Osaka: M8 + Canon 85/1.5 (using 75mm frame lines) L1002222

Paul Hart , July 19, 2008; 04:42 A.M.

Thank you for the review.

I am a Leica enthusiast who had an M8 and a bag full of Leica glass. I have sold it all.

I sold it because I found that my best photos were taken with my dSLR or my Ricoh GR-D. That's just how it turned out for me.

Had it been a film M, I could have hung on to it knowing that time would not erode its value. Sadly, with the M8 being part electronics/computer gadget (and flawed at that), I felt I couldn't hang around to see what impact its successor had on its value. I suspect that's all too obvious.

Arturo Canalda , July 19, 2008; 04:01 A.M.

I've been an intensive Canon user since 1988. I have used most models of Canon from film to digital. My last Canon was an EOS 5-D. I've read a lot about Leica bodies and the superb quality of Leica Lenses. And also I've read a lot about Cartier-Bresson, Capa, and other "clasics" of photography.

Last year Santa gaves me a new mint M8 with a 50 Summilux 1.4. Suddenly my world chaged by 180 degrees. I've been transported to the real world of photography. I have discovered the "decisive moment" and also I have dicovered that I know nothing about photography.

With my Leica I have made my best photos. And of course I have discoverd that other ways to make photos are possible, but not so difficult, expensive and marvelous than making photos with a Leica!

Regards,

Arturo Canalda

Steve Unsworth , July 19, 2008; 02:09 A.M.

"How does the M8 compare to the best Canons or Nikons or for that matter to an M6 with the same lens?!"

Compared to my Canon 5D the M8 is sharper. I think this may be partly due to the fact that there is no anti-aliasing filter, and partly due to the superb glass.

The results with say a 24mm Elmarit can be breathtaking.

A few snaps here - in fact all the pages you can see linked to the right were taken with the M8...

http://www.steveunsworth.co.uk/PAW_blog/?page_id=94

Doug Williams , July 19, 2008; 12:01 A.M.

Like David I am most interested in image quality and how the M8 compares to other high end cameras. I used a Leica many years ago and was impressed with the image quality. For me superior image quality is the main, maybe the only reason to buy a M8.

Bob Blakley , July 18, 2008; 11:09 P.M.

An aspect of the camera not mentioned in Josh's excellent review is that the camera does not use an anti-aliasing filter in front of its sensor. AA filters are installed in most cameras to prevent moire patterns in finely textured subjects; they reduce moire essentially by blurring the subject slightly. The M8's lack of anti-alias filter means that the image that comes straight out of the camera is sharper than that which comes straight out of other cameras with sensors of comparable (about 10MP) resolution. This means among other things that little sharpening is necessary in post-processing. To my eye, M8 files look nicer than sharpened files out of many other 10-12MP cameras; your impression might be different.

Arthur Plumpton , July 18, 2008; 08:37 P.M.

Thanks, Josh. A different and valuable take on this little beast, with good value-added compared to previous reviews.

As one other has stated above, the bottom line is image quality. After a year with the M8 and prior Leica lenses (and Voigtlander), I am extremely pleased with the quality. But I would probably also be pleased with a Canon 5D or its newer equivalents, although a rangefinder is a very different mechanism. For those who enjoy photography controlled by the photographer and not by auto-everything, it is subjectively among the best there is, other than expensive digital Hassys or (better) a 45 MP medium format back on a LF type body with Rodenstock optics.

Thanks again. Great review.

Alastair Firkin , July 18, 2008; 08:31 P.M.


M8/75'lux

I have used the M8 since its release. It is not a perfect camera, but I've not found one of those. I do love "using" the rangefinder, and the M8 with a 75 summilux or 50 Noctilux is a very interesting tool.

My major complaint is the inaccuracy of the frames, which in some cases are almost 10% "tight". They were never that "generous" with film, and I think the margin could have been a bit tighter. When you only have 10 megapixels to use, you want to use them all. Overall, I wonderful but expensive camera. Sadly the upgrade path looks like a bit of a dead end really, but so was the wonderful DMR: that's modern manufacture I suppose.

Peter Mar , July 18, 2008; 08:00 P.M.

Thanks for the review. I own and use the M8 since january 2007 and I'm very pleased with this camera. I did not previously own an 'M' but last year I wanted to use these wonderful Leica lenses with film, so now I work with an MP and an M7 too. It's addictive... BTW, there's a typo in this sentence: "The fast, large and very expensive Leica Summicron 21/2" I'm sure you meant 28/2. Thanks again, Peter

D.B. Cooper , July 18, 2008; 07:52 P.M.

Cut it any way you want to, but the M8's a lemon. It should be obvious to anyone that Leica is currently trading on their name. Only the uninformed or the cognitively impaired will spend that much money on a camera that doesn't work right, let alone one with the limitations of slow frame rate, memory incompatibility, etc., in a digital camera.

What amazes me is that German engineering and Japanese production and digital savvy could allow such a mistake to actually get to market. Didn't anyone test the thing during development? Like, actually take pictures with it? They had to really work hard at putting out a product with these mistakes, but evidently the physical problems weren't enough...

In this day and age, it's both reprehensible and shocking that Leica's idea of correcting the problem is to tell their customers to use a filter. That's just a polite way of extending their middle finger at them. The truth is that they should recall the cameras and fix them properly. This would be true at any price point, but for what the M8 costs, IMO, they've defrauded anyone that bought one. For that, at the very least, they deserve to go the way of Contax, and the managers that directed this to happen need to lose their jobs. Their customers should be entitled to a full refund should they want one. What a shame a once justifiably proud brand has to stoop to used car lot business practices to make a buck!

I think the M-8 will be used in business schools as an example of slipshod product development and brand arrogance as 'the camera that sunk Leica'...a great business model of what not to do. It's almost as if US 'Big 3' auto execs from the 70s were involved.

Having cut my photographic teeth on my dad's IIIf red dial, I was hoping Leica would successfully transition to digital. Now, they'll never get my business.

stephen gilbert , July 18, 2008; 07:27 P.M.

the test drive is no joke. leica is offering an m8, 50mm & 35mm lens in a combi bag free for the weekend. all you have to do is leave an imprint of your credit card in the amount of the kit, and its yours from friday 'til monday. if your leica dealer is not offering this, i suggest you get a new dealer.

Josh Root , July 18, 2008; 07:22 P.M.

This is just a note to say that there are still a few things I need to add to this article (US prices, specs, etc). But I was hustling to get it included in the newsletter today. You know me, everyday I'm hustling.

david smith , July 18, 2008; 07:20 P.M.

As a Leica user for half a century, the one thing that I am most interested in is image quality, sharpness. How does the M8 compare to the best Canons or Nikons or for that matter to an M6 with the same lens?

Jerry Lehrer , July 18, 2008; 07:09 P.M.

Mike,

You must be joking about the "free trial". The local dealer merely let me install my 35mm lens and take 3 shots on a SD (?) card that I paid for first. They did not want me to soil a new M8 which they could sell to a customer at full tourist price.

Jerry

Sid Moore , July 18, 2008; 05:04 P.M.

Thanks for a thorough review. I agree, other than the magenta cast, my principal reason for not being attracted to this body is the wide angle/fast lens dilemma, especially give the high ISO issues.

I'm puzzled that the sensor specs aren't mentioned. Did I overlook them? (11 megapixels, 10 effective and CCD)

Mike Tanner , July 18, 2008; 04:51 P.M.

Leica has a "test drive" program for the M8, if you're near a participating dealer. It's basically a free rental. If you're at all curious, as I was, the M8 is worth trying. I found the M8 focusing very precise and the images had wonderful detail at wide-open aperatures. Will I buy one? Unsure, but I did like it.

Shashikant Agarwal , July 18, 2008; 03:23 P.M.

Incidentally, there are now more details on the upgrade program here, including prices in USD.