4x5 Field Camera option

I have no idea what I am talking about when it comes to LF photography, but here is a pretty comprehensive resource.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

My dear Simon,
"why would I select a Linhof Technica over Horseman, over Speed Graphic etc etc.?"
I've been using a Linhof Master Technika for several years.
Before I purchase one, I asked the same questions, but now, I am able to answer to them ! ;>)

Why a Linhof ? In a few words,the answer is very simple : "because it is the best field camera ever built".

1. you have two choices : View or Field camera ? IMO the Field camera is easier to carry, and to set up.
2. wooden or metal field camera ? A metal camera is slightly heavier, but sturdier, and more precise. That's my choice.
3. why a Linhof over Horseman or Graphic ?

• Movements of front rise and shift, front and rear swings and tilts are more important on the Linhof Master Technika than on the Speed Graphic or the Horseman 45FA.
• The front rise is geared on the Linhof. That is very helpful for architecture, most of all if you use heavy tele lenses : the geared rise is more accurate, and you don't have to hold the lens with your fingers for rise and fall.
• You can use lenses from 72/75 to 360mm. I use a 400mm tele on mine. With a special device, or a special lensboard, you can use also 58 or 65mm wide angle lenses, but they are not rangefinder-focused.
• The movements of rise, swing and tilt are not so easy with a 72/75mm lens than on a view camera, but you can rise, swing and tilt sufficiently for landscape and architecture. With a 90mm wide angle, no problems.
• With the appropriate cams, you can use the rangefinder for focusing the camera. It is very useful for handheld photography. You'll make some photos handheld you'll never do with a view camera on a tripod.
• The Speeed Graphic or other Graflex cameras are better for street photography and reportage that for architecture. They have poor movements, the Kalart rangefinder is sometimes hard to calibrate, and on last models, the cams are difficult to find.
  On a Linhof, you put the cam, the lens and it is ready for focusing.
  
• On Horseman 45FA, the lensboard is very small, (80x80mm vs. 96x99mm for the Linhof) and all lenses cannot be mounted on it. (Only Shutters # 0 and 1, not #3, mostly used for long and tele lenses). On the Linhof, you can use #0, #1 and #3 shutters.
• The flange focal distance (the maximum length you can draw the bellows) is 249mm (front) + 23mm (rear), vs 430mm on a Master Technika.
  On the Linhof, the built-in triple dropbed extension allows the use of tele lenses up to 500 mm or macro lenses without any accessories.
• Graflex cameras, (Speed-Crown-Century-Anniversary-Pacemaker) are older cameras, no more produced. The used market is very important, but it will be sometimes difficult to find the exact accessory needed.
• Last, don't forget the Wista folding metal cameras : SP, RF and VX. The RF is the only with rangefinder, but with a very narrow range of lenses. No wide angle lenses can be used other than groundglass focusing. The Wista SP is a good camera, but with less movements than the Linhof Master Technika, and has no rangefinder.
• The Linhof can be used with a viewfinder mounted on the top of the housing. It is the best one, for handheld composition and with parallax correction for close photography.
• A Master Technika or Super-Technika IV or V can easily be bought used. It is a standard among field cameras, and they are still manufactured.
• Last but not least, Linhof cameras are manufactured with very high engineered requirements, rock-solid and very accurate. These cameras are suitable either for hand-held focused photography or for studio or location shots on a tripod.A Linhof lasts a lifelong.

i just started with LF and have no technical expertise, but seeing how you're looking to do a little research before purchasing, i would recommend sending an email to the cambo up in the netherlands at:

Cambo Fotografische Industrie BV [cambo@wxs.nl]

or checking out their wares at:

http://www.cambo.com

i recently purchased a used cambo sc in great condition for $399 off of sleazeBay, and after a quick request for accessory information, the cambo people were more than happy to send me all their catalogs faster than you can say "please take my money." (possibly a moot point, because all of that information can be found on their site in the form of PDF docs as well.)

good luck in your quest.

man, that was like going on after the beatles....

I am not going to contradict Jean-Louis but it all comes down to $$$$. If you can afford the Linhoff he suggests you will not be sorry. For the rest of us, the Wista technical camera can be had for about $1000(used). Some people like the look and feel of wood and you can spend between $600 and $3000 on one of these. It is also worth looking at the Toyo 45A and AX. Since their new carbon fiber field camera has no rear movements I would avoid that for architecture.

Something to consider, too, is you mentioned "architecture" as an interest. For that style of shooting, you really should consider a rail camera, like the Sinar F1. Bed cameras (field cameras) generally have limited movements. That being said, I have both, and shoot with my Wista SP most of the time. It's quicker set up, physically smaller, and tough as nails. It has sufficient movements for what I usually need, Can take a range of lenses from 72mm to 360mmT without changing the setup, and if I want a longer lens, Wista makes a bed extender and extension bellows, as well as a full range of attachements, backs, bellows and gizmos to do all sorts of stuff. It's basic design and quality is very similiar to the Linhof, at about 1/3 the price. It even has a few features the Linhof doesn't have (sorry Linhof fans...) The one thing the Linhof has that I wish the Wista had was a replaceable drop bed for extreme wide angles. The widest lens I can use and shoot 4x5 with is a 72mmXL.

The biggest drawback to a field camera ia a short bellows which limits how long a focal length you can use. If you have a long bellows, then short focal lengths either won`t focus because the bellows will not compress or there is no movement because they are tight.

My compromise was a Zone IV with 20" bellows and the optional bag bellows which allows short length and movement. Downside is changing bellows in the field, extra cost, having to cary extra bellows.

I came from a monorail and find the compromise excellent.

Watch the weight of Linhofs. They are really well made a sturdy, but some of the models are very heavy.

Well, okay, so someone else broached the rail option.

After careful consideration and poking around and reading people's commentaries I ended up buying an Arca-Swiss 4x5 "Field" Camera (I think they advertise it with the ""'s). It certainly is an option. Uses 6x9 front with reducing bellows to a 4x5 back - reducing size and weight. The Linhof Master Technika is more compact and quicker to setup (you can actually have a small lens mounted and close camera? Convenient - I don't have one so don't know details). But "quicker" is pretty relative. The Master Technica certainly is more difficult to lose parts to (the Arca-Swiss breaks down into 5 pieces for lugging - I leave bellows on the front and rear movements). But I have been taking it into the field. And using it in studio. It is well built, rock solid lockdowns.

But I think in the end it all comes down to how much $$$'s you want to spend. Zero detents to start from a known position and rear movements and solid, non-slip lockdown I would assume are musts for fine architectural photography.

I have had view cameras and a Linhof Tec III. The III is outfitted with a 65mm (with recessed board) to a 360mm and I have never had any trouble. As stated, it is a bit on the heavy side as far as field cameras go but I would rather have that then a feather light blowing in the wind. You will be fine on most building with a 90mm to start. Press cameras don't have the back movements that you will need. Technical cameras are what you want to look for.

I really hate to nit pick, but I see this _a lot_. Field cameras are a subset of view cameras, field camera v. view camera doesn't make sense, since a field camera is a view camera. What's usually meant here is field camera v. monorail camera. A view camera is anything you look through the back of, focusing and compsing on a ground glass. Sorry to be so picky, but terminology always seems to bug me, and since Kodak is calling reciprocity failure, reciprocity effect now, that's essentially a lost cause, sigh.

Peter

Simon: Jean Louis said it all for you and me. Good luck.

It would be interesting to take a poll and see how many large format photographers who have been at it for say 5 years or more are still using the first camera they bought as their primary camera. I'd bet the percentage is pretty low. It's very difficult to know what camera suits you best from reading about them and studying spec sheets.

My suggestion would be to not get too hung up on trying to make your first camera your last camera. Instead, buy something relatively inexpensive in either a field or a monorail, see how you like large format photography, then as you understand your likes, dislikes, and needs better sell it if necessary and buy something you will by then be in a better position to select.

FWIW, I don't think a Speed Graphic has adequate movements for architecture and I don't think a Linhof Technika is the best choice for architecture because of the problems using a lens wider than 90mm with them (either camera would work, and Technika's are great cameras in many respects, I just don't think either is the best choice for architecture). I think a good compromise for your interests (which are somewhat at odds with each other since the conventional wisdom is a field camera for landscape and a monorail for archtitecture) might be one of the wood field cameras with lots of bellows extension and lots of movements, maybe a used Zone VI or a used Wisner Traditional. You should be able to get either for less than $1,000. Shen Hao and Tachihara might also be good choices if the relatively short bellows doesn't bother you, Shen Hao might be better for architecture because it has more movements than the Tachihara. You could get either of them new for a good bit less than $1000.

It would be interesting to take a poll and see how many large format photographers who have been at it for say 5 years or more are still using the first camera they bought as their primary camera.

Bravo, dude !

Don't worry too much about the specs. Virtually all view cameras (including field cameras) support larger amounts of swing and tilt than you will ever use. The only movement that you might run out of, particularly for architecture photography, is front rise. With modest inconvenience, you can create additional front rise by tilting the camera up, then titling both standards back to plumb.

As Peter states, field cameras are a subset of view cameras. Generally they are lighter and fold in some manner to be more convenient to transport. Compared to cameras intended for studio use, field cameras generally have some compromises in performance, possibly including non-geared movements, less precision, less rigidity, etc. There is still a wide range of capabilities among the various models of field camears. If architecture photography will be an important use, I suggest looking for a field camera that has interchangable bellows. Short focal length lenses are much easier to use with a bag bellows than with a long, pleated bellows.

I agree with Brian. Don't worry too much about which camera -- get started and you will learn whether you like LF photography, which types of LF photography you do, which features are important to you, etc. Particularly if you buy used, you probably can get much of your money back by selling on ebay. If you live near a city with an LF dealer, you could visit them to actually see the cameras.

Particularly for someone interested in architecture photography, a camera that should be on your list is the Linhof Technikardan. For architecture, a Technikardan is definitely better than most of the cameras that have been mentioned. It approximates a monorail but collapses into a smaller size for transport. The drawbacks compared to other field cameras is that it is on the high end for both price and weight.

Many of your questions have been discussed in this forum before. I suggest browsing in the archives.

Many thanks to you all for your excellent tips and intelligent evaluation. Large format is quite a minefield. I was very interested in the wise advice - not to think the first LF camera I buy will be my last!! Can I say that as one moves up the forums from 35 mm, through MF, to LF the degree of "point scoring" among respondents falls - great to see. For me it seems that I need to determine the amount of movements I would need and focal lenghts for what I will shoot, and get something that fits that spec. The brand / price will look after itself.

Here's a quick rundown of the 4x5 cameras I've owned, and why I've sold them:

1. Calumet 45N. Studio camera, can be cheaply had. Has most movements, breaks down into a relatively medium sized package, but quite awkward to backback. Ended up selling it, and purchased...

2. Toyo 45A-II. Small metal field camera. Some will say it's heavy for what it does, but I don't agree. Great little camera, but has an ridiculous way of controlling front shift/swing/rough focus with one lock. Minor front shifts are near on impossible due to a deep center detent. Bad design. Sold it, and purchased...

3. Gandolfi Variant Level 3. Wooden field camera, big, heavy, all movements excluding asymetric swings and tilts. Works very well, but it bulky. I haven't sold it yet, but am planning on doing so. I then bought...

4. Linhof Master Technika. About the same size as the Toyo, all metal (airframe-quality aluminum), extememly well made. Has most movements, at least enough for landscape photography, great bellows extension, geared front rise, and very, very smooth operation. Downsides include difficulties using wide lenses, high cost, and perhaps it's weight. However, once you use one, you'll certainly appreciate it. It's the best made camera I know of, and I know of 4 'professional fine-art' photographers (2 very well known, 2 lesser well known) that use it, and absolutely swear by it.

Best thing to do is to try out as many as you can, and then decide. Everyone has opinions, but only one really matters in the end. Yours.

I once had a Toyo GX rail camera ( full movements and yaw free) all metal and completely geared movements. One fine camera, only one problem it took an elephant to move it on site. Traded it in on a Toyo 45 AII with all the movements, metal construction. I have a 90 mm, and 210 mm lense all in a medium back pack.

I have used it for table top, architecture and general field shots. Great ! Happy shoting

I had a monorail view camera and twice I broke the font standard due to things that pop up or go wrong out in the field. In 1987 I bought a Linhof Technika and have never had a breakdown in the field since. Yes it is heavy, but I have never been unable to hike to where I want to photograph (up to the top of Upper Yosemite Falls trail). My lenses have been the limiting factor on image management, with the exception of the 121 Super Angulon. Monorail cameras are harder to pack and transport in the field. There are other cameras besides Linhof that are sturdy and compact, but when the camera is folded into itself for transport, it is almost indestructible. http://www.cameraquest.com/techs.htm is a web page that discusses the various Linhof models and is a wealth of information.

Paul

Linhof technika are my favourite camera in therm of quality, but for architecture and specially wide angles and rise..., it's just not appropriate at ALL ! Arca Swiss is the best tool for this purpose without doubt !

You might want to look at a Shen Hao. Badger Graphic out of Wisconsin is selling them for $624. There has been a lot of good buzz about this camera recently, so I decided to pick one up myself. I was not the least bit disappointed.

It's very well built, very compact wooden field camera and weighs in at about five pounds. It has good movements for a field camera although not as good as a view camera of course.

Goo luck in your search.

Well I took your advice and tried the Speed Graphic only to find as you said it is too limiting in movements. So then I tried the Linhof Technica (likely an early one as that would be my budget limit. The movements seem about what I'd use (being mindful that the first i get won't be the last). Yes it's engineering is masterful. Other makes and models suggested seems very good too from net searches. BUT not one seems to be available here. I also feel a monorail might tempt me to leave it at home too often.

BUT, can any suggest tips to the following: 1. Is there anything I should do to treat the bellows to maximise its life - eg some waterproof spray? 2. what should I NOT put in contact with the bellows when cleaning it. I plan just to dust it. 3. Should I have the unit lubricated and cleaned internally to get off to a good start? 4. Any cautions I should take (other than the obvious) about little things that might go wrong? 5. When cleaning the leather on the body, is it ok just to use normal quality leather cleaner?

The unit I'm trying has a serial number 2217****. It comes with a Horseman 6x12 (about 6 months old) back and an original 6x9 back. Any tips about these?

Finally, (and I am grateful for your time and effort here) where should I get info on using it especially bellows extension and movements and focusing stuff.

Many thanks.

For 45 body, at one far end, Toyo CF series is light weight and cheap, at the other far end, Linhof is expensive and sturdy. You need to do a study on the weight, bellow extension, lens range accommodation. Good luck and you need to do lots of homework yourself to come up with something you will like. 45 photography will be much slower than using Hassel but you will have much more fun and flexibility. Enjoy!

My own belief is that bellows are best left alone unless they are cracking, develop pin holes, or have some other specific problem. It isn't always easy to know what material the bellows is made of (for example, Deardorff used at least three different materials for their bellows, maybe more) and I've always had the impression that more harm than good might result from putting something on a perfectly good bellows of uncertain material just to hopefully extend its life. The only exception in my mind (and I'm no expert) would be if you were sure your bellows was leather, in which case application of a leather softener and preservative from time to time might be called for. But my impression also is that few if any cameras come with real leather bellows these days. Again, I could be wrong on all this, if someone here says he or she wrote a book about caring for bellows or is otherwise an expert by all means listen to them and ignore this.

With respect to lubrication, if you're talking specifically about a Linhof I believe Linhof recommends nothing other than possibly an occasional very light application of Vaseline or something similar on the rails so that the front standard continues to move smoothly along the rails. operates smoothly. But I'm not an expert on this either.

Since I'm not an expert on either question you might logically wonder why I've responded. Only becaue no one else who knows more than I do has.

As a Linhof Master Tech user, I totally agree with what Brian wrote.
Don't do anything for the bellows, except if it has pinholes or cracks.
If you are sure it's leather, you can at most use Lexol, or liquid wax for luxury shoes.
For lubrication, pure vaseline on the focusing rails. That's all.
Never use silicon on the mechanic parts, it will attack the leather of the bellows.

Again, many thanks for your advice and time. I took the punt and bought the Technika V (late version). In excellent condition with all bits in place and very few minor wear marks showing limited use. Well what a piece of masterful engineering. Everyone was right.

Its come with a Schneider 135mm f5.6 with Compur #0 shutter. But I'm sure the lower speeds are out - eg 1 sec seems like 10 secs. However a very experienced technician (who does Linhof warranty work) said all that needs is a clean and reset which might cost AU$100.00. It's also got a more recent Schneider 250mm f5.6 (Tele-Arton) with Compur #1 shutter which is perfect. I like the Tele-Arton for its shorter distance performance in architecture. I then negotiated to get the original Linhof aluminium case (with all its dividers and crest still in place on the front) and keep the family together.

One great part of the kit is the telescopic focal finder. Gee if only I knew they were available - perfect for 35mm and MF work too (although I have to translate the respective focal lengths) when in the field to work out lense choice and location without dragging everything around with me.

I have run some test film through the 6x12 and 6x9 backs to check lens performance before I play with 4x5 film.

Some observations: 1. I don't agree it is "heavy". If it was light people would complain that it is "cheap". It doesn't really weigh more than my EOS 1vHS and an L series lens.

2. I was amazed that the one tiny button on the back revealed so much - rotatable / removable back section!! I just love all the movements - now I have to learn about their affect.

3. I love the built in spirit level. I bought a genuine Hassy one for my 501CM and then learned something. Don't always trust your tripod head's spirit level because some camera body and mounting plate combinations result in a false reading - nothing beats a spirit level on the camera body.

4. The rails are a world of their own - movements, precision, lens distance scales.

The down-side. Well at this extremely early time, one thing only (except "LF where have you been all this time and I wish I could afford this gear new") - just a shame that the 4x5 viewer hood is fixed right to the edge of the ground glass. Is there an option?

Specifically, thanks to Jean-Louis and Brian for the further tips. I simply dry dusted the bellows - won't try to fix what is not broken. I cleaned the rails with a damp cloth to remove dust and any residual lubricant, then applied a tiny amount of bees wax. I avoid vaseline because its petroluem base dries out other things like leather and rubber.

I saw in another discussion forum reference to using Armorall (auto plastics restorer product). From my auto experience that product should be avoided at all costs. It leaves a nasty film and actually aggravates ageing - it is only effective on new/near new surfaces.

A tip from a new Linhof user - on a miserable and wet winter's day - take out the Technika and play with it beside a nice log fire. There is so much to discover.

Simon,
Congratulations for your new camera. I am happy to learn you've made a very good choice. Your camera will give you thousand of hours of good service.
You will discover day after day how accurate and well manufactured are these cameras.
Have joy making good photos.

Jean-Louis, Many thanks for the guidance.