Leica D.R.P. Ernst Leitz Wetzlar

Hi Patricia,

According to serial numbers, that camera would be a model III or IIIb from 1939. Also, the lens on it dates from 1939. The Elmar 9cm dates from 1938. Regards,

MP

You have a Leica and lenses and a few accessories from approx.1939. If you're asking if only 4 came into the US and if it is rare, and if you have just become rich, the answers are- No, No, and No.

Picking up on Marcelo's post, I can see why he says it's either a III or a IIIb. There is some ambiguity in serial number listings. The number Patricia gives could fall either in the range cited for the III, or then again for the IIIb. That's odd! I know these serial number lists are not perfect, but I've not seen a given serial# fall into two places before.

Does anyone else have any observations on this?

One of the 'freedom train' Leicas perhaps? Value depends on condition of the camera and lenses. Why one of four? Have a look at Cameraquest.com if you want to know more about these great cameras.

I think it's one of four that her family brought into the US, and not one of only four produced or exported into the US. At least, that's how I see it.

Sartorious puts it firmly in 1939 as a IIIB.

That's the most clear and intelligent description of a camera and lenses I've seen on this forum.

Their value depends a great deal on their condition. In good working shape the camera body might be $300 but double that for near mint condition. lenses, each in the $200 range if the glass is in very good condition.

Resist any temptation the clean the glass; you could easily make a lens more or less valueless.

Take a look at the well known internet auction site. But prices are often inflated, and cheap fakes are numerous. So look at well photographed cameras, especially where there are several close up pictures.

If you could manage a picture of the equipment to show here, it would help a lot

My two lists both put 319181 as a IIIB of 1939. If it's a III the shutter would only go to 1/500th.

I don't think it is a zoom lens but a collapsible lens to make it easier to carry.

According to my husband's mother this was one of 4 cameras allowed into the US before WWII. I am going to try to post some pictures of the camera hope I can get it to work.

Here is a picture of the actual camera.

And one more picture of the top of the camera. Thanks for all of your input. I have learned more than I did know.

For the hopelessly picky among us (is this why I'm responding?) the green and yellow filters are in the wrong boxes. Swap 'em.

Patrica these cameras were being imported in to the US from many years before. So I would put that the US customs only allowed your family to bring 4 cameras at a time into the country so as to not be considered importers and subject to some tax.

Since the body clearly goes to 1/1000th it falls into the IIIB camp from 1939. The lens is clearly a 5cm f2.0 Summitar and would from the serial number date as the guy shave said to 1939.

The IIIb (G) was the last prewar body and the first that had numbers allocated to the German military.

If I were to make a guess members of your family traveled to Germany early in 1939 and on their way out bought these cameras when they went to bring them into the country Customs only allowed 4 to enter. I have no guess if there were more in the group and confiscated or these are what the family knew would be allowed.

The story adds little if anything to the value as there is no provenance to back it up so the camera stand on it's own and now condition now becomes the most important part of deciding value.

To add the 1937 date on the instruction book has little to do with when the camera was made. It was most likely an instruction book for the earlier model III (G) and since the only real difference was the 1/1000th shutter speed no real need to reprint the instruction book. At one time it might have had a loose inserted page.

I am sorry when I mentioned about Provenance I had forgotten about the customs receipt. But this does reinforce the idea that to have brought more then 4 cameras in would have incurred an import tax of some sort. And that is how the idea that only four were allowed. Since dealers would have been importing as many cameras as they could have gotten their hands on with the winds of war blowing so hard any savy dealer would have know the supply was going to be gone very soon.

To Patricia Zimmeman. Your Leica is a Leica IIIb from the 1939's second batch of 1000. It differs from model IIIa in the following aspects: Accessory shoe fixed on top of camera with four screws; eyepieces for focusing and for viewing are joined tobether instead of being separeted, as in previous models; the lever for dioptric precision in the rangefinder (the left eyepiece) is located around the rewind button and not at the left of the above mentioned eyepiece.(one batch only in the first year). Your photo of the top of that camera is spectacular to determine the model. If You wish more data try yhe Net "Leica screw mount serial numbers 1923-1965. -------------------- Another tip: First zoom lenses were produced in 1957/1958, with a range of nearly 2.2 times (36 t9 82 milimeters). They were very heavy and produced by the German producer "Voigtlander" (name not well written, of course), Its name was a "ZOOMAR" a trade mark of the said Company, and it was its abbreviation which has gained the actual meaning of transfocal lenses. Hope You enjoy it,