Timothy Smith , Aug 31, 2010; 12:04 a.m.
Hello,
For reasons that I don't want to go into here (but am perfectly willing to discuss, off-line), I am looking for a working rangefinder camera that takes Leica threadmount lenses, but does not contain a meter with a battery. My ideal would be a Leica IIIg or IIIf, but working examples of these are priced in collectors' currency, and not suitable for my aims.
So, can anyone point me to a possibility? I am thinking mostly about the Canon P and Canon 7 (not the later Canon 7S with its CdS meter). I keep reading about Canon Ps with "wrinkled shutter curtains". Is this a fatal flaw? Can it be repaired?
Camera would be used just about exclusively with my 50mm Elmar f/2.8 collapsible.
Thanks for any and all feedback.
Dave Sims 
, Aug 31, 2010; 12:46 a.m.
The wrinkled shutter curtains on Canon Ps generally don't affect function. There may be counterexamples to this, but in general it's only a cosmetic issue. It may scare away collectors, which is good. The wrinkles are the result of ham-fisted owners brutalizing them from behind while loading the camera, and they're present in most second-hand Canon Ps.
I like my Canon P, although I'm sure I'd be happy with other rangefinder cameras. Loads from the back, intuitive in use, simple viewfinder. There's a few reviews of the Canon P on the web-- check the Dante Stella site, for example.
Louis Meluso 
, Aug 31, 2010; 12:54 a.m.
The wrinkled shutter curtain is not a fatal flaw as long as it's not too severe. The 7 has a non-battery operated Selenium meter. With the P you need to get the accessory meter if you want one. I don't believe you can use a collapsible lens on the 7, though. Not sure about the P.
Robert Hooper 
, Aug 31, 2010; 01:02 a.m.
I just sent you an email, Tim.
Jean-Yves Mead , Aug 31, 2010; 02:50 a.m.
I'm surprised that you can't find a good working IIIF black dial or non-self-timer red dial for reasonable money.
Anthony Oresteen , Aug 31, 2010; 03:36 a.m.
Get a Leica IIIf RD. It's your best bet. In the long rung it's money well spent. I have one and a If.
I've had about 6 other LSM bodies over the years and they are a joy to use.
Barry Fisher 
, Aug 31, 2010; 04:14 a.m.
Look at KEH and on fleabay should be able to find one.
Jean-Yves Mead , Aug 31, 2010; 06:04 a.m.
(Sorry - should have said, IIIf)
paul wheatland , Aug 31, 2010; 07:52 a.m.
Avoid the Voightlander/ Cosina with collapsible lenses unless you wrap "Dymo" label sized tape around the lens barrel to avoid collapsing the lens completely which will damage part of the double curtain used in these cameras to prevent light leaks. Try to find an ugly user version of Leica IIIc unless you really need flash synch. I've also had great luck with battered prewar models II and III black Leicas with various cosmetic issues (cracked and missing vulcanite, scarred paint, lots of brass showing). I had these CLAed by independent repair for "short" money (Youxin Ye in Canton, MA comes to mind)
Zane Johnson , Aug 31, 2010; 10:55 a.m.
The Canon IV series is pretty reasonably priced. You really need to state a price limit, though. Most meter-less rangefinders are 50 years old now (or more), and often require some maintenance to get back into shooting shape. You should also handle one before buying; the screwmount viewfinders are very small and unpleasant compared to modern cameras.
