Rookie in search for some answers: budget, system and quality

There's nothing wrong with going the cheaper way. I bought a Yashica 124-G when I was in high school and it was a great experience. I wore it out after 2 years though, and after using Hasselblad, Zeiss lenses, the difference was substantial. But I still took a lot of great images with the 124G.

You should be able to get a decent Hasselblad for $1k. One advantage with the Hasselblad is that it is so easy to find more components and lenses. A Rolleiflex would be a great choice as well. But they can be expensive and you get one lens. I really like using a TLR. You are right that most of the options are pretty high quality. The Japanese cameras are nice, but they look a lot different optically than the German lenses. I would buy the best camera you can afford, and make sure you choose a system with easy to find parts that are affordable as well. You may find a basic kit for not much money, but when you go to buy a lens or prism finder (if you want one), it should also be affordable.

I use a Yashicamat 124G. I like it. One of the interesting things about TLRs is that no one bothers you. My guess is that the camera looks so unimportant that no one cares. I think I read something once about a guy named Solomon (French?) who used 35mm for that reason. My Yashicamat was made in or around 1971, and it's still going strong.

I also like and use Pentax 645. Interesting thing there has been using the 645 lenses with small format Pentax cameras through an adapter ring.

I have not used any of the expensive European cameras, but they have a strong following, probably for good reason. As long as your camera works, I doubt there would be any problem with it.

If I had to do it all over again, I would have gone with the Pentax 67 for the lenses and the sturdiness. I stumbled upon the 645 at a local shop. It's a good camera, but I think I would have liked the 67 for the money more. Just leaning that way, don't know why. J.

After many cameras and formats (including two Bronicas) I now find I use my digital for most shots. But if I need better quality, I use my Mamiya RB67 Pro SD. This camera has never broken down (unlike both Bronicas it replaced). With the 6x8 back I have 50% more film than the Bronica 6x6. Actually double when you are cropping the 6x6 for a rectangle print. No electronics to crap out or learn to use. If you are backpacking, it can get heavy though so sometimes it stays home :-(

Besides a better image, when using the RB67 I get a real satisfying and enjoyable picture taking experience!

Ultimately what you choose should reflect the type of shooting you intend to do.

Not a pro - Bob

This is a no-brainer for the most part. If you buy a decent Rolleiflex E-2 model with removable hood or later F model in either 3.5 or 2.8, you can drop in an extra-bright aftermarket fresnel viewing screen to make the image 7x to 10X brighter. Then shoot with it for six months and see if you really like using Medium Format. You can always sell a Rollei for what you paid for it, even if you spend $125 to upgrade the screen with a drop-in unit. Then you can either pocket your $$$ if you don't feel you are using MF enough, or you can then move on to something like the Pentax 67 or 645. (Stay away from the Bronica.)

Great cameras are the Mamiya TLR, (several lenses available) Mamiya 645's, Mamiya RB's great, but can be heavy, Hasselblad's great, but pricey and Rollei Tlr's. But, if I was going to spend that much on a camera, I would at least get one where more than one lenses were available.

If you're interested in getting the most bang for your buck and that this is a hobby you're not too committed to yet, try an RZ67. It's affordable, has good glass and has the convenience of a revolving back [the film back revolves to give you portrait and landscape with the camera in the upright position with auto masking in the finder to reflect the change. Very important for MF especially if you're using a WLF... I think it'll be quite silly to do a portrait shot using a WLF sideways. Of course, a Hassy doesn't have such a problem since it is a square format.]. But do note that this is a very heavy camera that has been described by one of the forum members as a "mailbox". (: My set weighs in at 2.544kg.

I'm a student in Singapore who has no income whatsoever, so I think I'm as cheapo as it gets. I bought a 2nd hand RZ67 + Sekor C [meant for the RB] 127mm f3.8 + RZ67 Pro II back + WLF for 400SGD approx 270USD only. They aren't in excellent physical condition, but nothing is falling apart whatsoever. There're heavy scratches and dings on the film advance lever, which bears testament to the "mailbox's" amazingly durable build. The lens is very clean and the shutter seems quite accurate. Buy a proper Sekor Z lens plus an AE prism and you'll still have cash to spare from your 1000USD for film and processing. Oh yea, one advantage of using the Sekor C lens is that, you can run the camera on full manual, no need for batteries. The Sekor C doesn't meter with the AE prism though.

The mamiya 645 pro is worth considering too. Though it makes a small image on film and it costs more, it makes for a good transition from 35mm SLR.

So now you've got recommendations on just about everything<g>. Another good buy might be a Fuji rangefinder.

"So now you've got recommendations on just about everything<g>."

Hahahas, that's true. Most people would recommend their own gear and stuff. Well pretty much of the survivors in the MF are worth buying. Key considerations would be:

1) Price, as always - you can't buy what you can't afford 2) Availability of servicing - you won't want an expensive paperweight 3) Resale value in terms of price and demand for it - you don't want to get stuck if you find it unsuitable for your uses 4) Weight - you won't want to quit halfway up a trail cause' your gear weighing too damn much to bear 5) Durability - you won't want an assortment of expensive paperweight from one camera 6) Future proof - if you're rich and intend to attach a digital back to it

Weigh between the 6 and you'll probably still find a whopping lot of options. Just take a gamble and pray hard.

Do avoid the Russian cameras if you're totally new to the hobby. They can be quirky. One advice I've read off an old thread somewhere - if you're buying Russian cameras,look for the ugliest ones. They must be good to be that well used. The pretty ones are probably the dead copies which is why they're never used and minty. There are always exception to the rule though.

Hi Per There are so many possible solutions..I have some experience with Hasselblad, and I like it, even if it takes a few rolls to get familiar with it. In Denmark almost all pros are using digital, which means that the film gear is very cheap at the moment. You will be able to find a nice Hasselblad M with a 80 mm lens for 500$ - not on ebay but on the danish "blue newspaper", see www.dba.dk. Items are sold for almost half the price of ebay. You might spend some money on a CLA too. It will later be easy to find the lenses, equipment and repairs quite cheap, if you keep an eye on whats on. As an example the very nice wide-angle 50 mm T* goes for 500 $. Even the most sophisticat editems like a flexbody are sold in denmark for 25 % off the price of ebay-auctions. See www. cameralink.dk .Later on you can add a digital back when prices are more reasonable. A good scanner will give you much better results than with most digital cameras, but the process is not so fast.. Good luck!

For 6x7 the two best systems are the Mamiya RB/RZ line if you shoot primarily tripod and studio work or the Pentax 67 for primarily handheld work. The lightest, easiest to use and most compact 645 system is the Pentax 645, and it is also one of the most durable and least expensive if you get the original manual focus version. The Yashica is the cheapest 6x6 TLR you can buy and still have a well built good quality camera. The Mamiya 6x6 TLR system is also very durable and popular for those who favor the square format, though the lens quality is not as good as Zeiss. For your pocketbook and ease of use I would recommend the Pentax 645 system as the best all around for beginners.

I'd look into the Pentax 645 or the Mamiya 645 Super/Pro/ProTL--both deliver great images. My first was a Mamiya 645 Super with an 80/2.8 C lens and plain prism finder.Yes, it induced the predictable "wow" effec when I got back the first set of b&w proofs(and later 8x10 enlargements).TLRs have their fans but the cameras and lenses are getting old and may require service. 645 SLRs like the Pentax and Mamiyas offer alot for the money.

Arax rebuilt Kievs have some merits. My Arax 60 MLU has worked perfectly and they come with one year warranty. Lenses are very good and very cheap. Body, Zeiss-Jena 50/4, 120/2.8, 180/2.8 and Arsat 80/2.8, 35 and 40mm extension tubes, metering prism and waist level finder cost about 550 euros. I wanted 6x6 with good set of lenses cheaply, well, that's what I got.

It's quite easily handholdable though ergonomics could be better.

It's actually bigger than appears in the pics but reasonable and weight is no problem (except the 180/2.8 Sonnar isn't light by any stretch of imagination).

Go to collectorsweekly.com for some good buys... There are some Hasselblads for reasonable prices...

Another great camera that is not commonly recommended. Because alot of people haven't had any experience with one.But, highly praised by those who have one. Is the Mamiya Universal/Super 23 cameras. It is a rangefinder. But, it takes 6x7, 6x9 and the instant film. Fuji would be that film of today. Since Polaroid stopped making theirs. It has one of the best film holders for holding film flat. Also, it was made in the same time frame as the RB's and the later Mamiya Tlr's. I have the 3 cameras mentioned and when I want to use a good hand holdable in the 6x9, out comes the Universal.The main thing I learned when I went from a Mamiya 500DTL to a Mamiya C330 years ago. Was that there wasn't a learning curve. A light meter does of course help in the use of mamy MF cameras. But, focusing, setting the shutter speed, aperature is the same. The DOF is different since the lenses are different.

Any case, good luck! There is a MF camera for anyone's needs and likes. The other camera formats, 35, digital, etc are very much the same within their own category.

there are lots of good/cheap options currently out there. the mamiya rb series fits both of those criteria.

i just sold a complete bronica gs-1 6x7 kit for $500! camera body, two lenses, backs, finders...for that little money, i kinda wish i had kept it. that much gear would have cost at least a few thousand maybe 15-20 years ago. my point is that a thousand dollars can go a very long way these days. hasselblads are nice, but bronicas and mamiyas are almost as good, and much cheaper...plus hasselblad doesn't make 6x7s.

I inherited a Kodak Retina IIIc 35mm from my grandfather. It forced me to learn how to measure light and about how and why to set the aperture. I just acquired a Fuji Professional GW670III in near mint condition. The consensus about this camera: (i) superb lens (though it is not interchangeable) (ii) camera body is very simple and durable (it does not even have a light meter). You could purchase one like it (there is a 6x9 version too) and a good hand held light meter for less than $1000, learn how to use the meter, start shooting color slides - which are very unforgiving - and acquire good basic knowledge about photography very quickly. For some results take a look at the images posted at:

http://fujirangefinder.com/

Whatever you end up purchasing, spend more time shooting film and less time worrying about the camera you are using.

I used to use a Hassleblad rig for weddings and commercial setups, and once you got the hang of everything - its a little different - the results were absolutely astounding. Its just not built for speed and for weddings I like not to have to fret over 'stuff', so its long gone. But I do miss it - so much so that for my personal stuff, I'm actively searching for either an old 500cm or a Mamiya 645. Either can be found within your budget if you're patient. --Rich

depending on how cheap you want to go, I would not rule out the Bronica SQ-AI or the gs-1. I have both and the both proved to be reliable. I have picked up both Schneider Kreuzach zooms and they are remarkable. You could get a really nice AI for around $500 and a couple of lenses of for the other $500

Hassel would be a good way to enter the MF, but do not forget that lenses are yummi and can be very tempting to buy and finally they can run a budget dry. However there is a better way I found. I get postwar Ikoflex with Zeiss Tessar for the price that would make people laughing, then I fixed it myself, that was much easier then anybody would anticipate. 10 ml of isopropanol took care of the gunk on the shutterblades and a few drops of WB40 and a selicon lube from the Home Depot made 60 year old focusing mechanism working smooth. As an exposure meter I use my Olympus XA which is almost as small and handy as a flashmeter. That is pretti much it. And by the way you can get a Soviet Kiev (6C or 60, not 88), if you want an excitement in you life, but Iskra (Zeiss Ikonta copy) is a good alternative if you find one in the working conditions.

why not a rangefinder camera???consider mamiya 7ii,bronica rf645 (the best lenses on mf!!!) very light and usable to travel and free time(hiking etc...)

A Moskva 5 and use the rest of the money to buy a LOT of film. Seriously. Best $40.00 6x9 landscape camera I ever bought.

I can recommend the Mamiya RB-67 Pro-S without reservation. A complete kit is $300.

Until the digital transition a few years ago, the Mamiya RB (and RZ) system was the de fact standard studio camera all over. It is a workhorse. It is the kind of machine that could be depended on for a livelihood.

The RB is so inexpensive simply because it lacks any sheen of collectibility. If you're looking for a camera to use rather than fondle, this is it.

Thanks for all the input! MUCH appreceiated and very interesting indeed! I have sold my Pentax limited 31mm lens, and for those money, I got 2 Bronica SQ A bodies, a 120 film back, a polaroid film back, a 40 lens, a 80 lens and a 150 lens. I also got some film, some polaroid and a strap... I think that was an okay deal, no fault on equipment, just average use wear... What do you guys think? Thanks