Which beginner D model for my son

Avoid cameraaddict, before you purchase anything it's always a good idea to check resellerratings.com....example http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Camera_Addict they look pretty bad to me. Have you given any thought to perhaps a D50? I think it performed better at high ISO than my D200 does, and they can be had for pretty cheap now.....the only reason I hate the 40 and 60 is the lack of AF motor in the body. Haven't used the 80, but I was close to buying one for reasons that probably aren't important to your son (mainly lcd status window and ergonomics). If buying af-s lenses from now one doesn't bother you, go for the 40, if it does go for the 80. Or if your daughter is a bit more serious about photography you could always give him her D70, give her the D200, and you upgrade to the D700 :-)

get him the d80 if you can. that way he can build up his glass collection with older lenses without spending a mint. the d80 can af with the $120 50/1.8, the d40/60 can't. a 50 will teach him about composition in a way a zoom can't.

D80 if you think he will truly take up photography.

the 18-70 lens will make a better walk around lens. No kit lens will make a good sports shooting lens and he is likely to be disappointed with any results he gets with a kit lens. The lens you're giving him may be good enough since it is fast though. The D40 and D60 are good cameras but I would find it really frustrating to shoot quick events like sports on them because they do no not autofocus older lenses which is very important for sports on dx viewfinders without split prism focus screens, and they also have interfaces that are really designed more for snapshots/travel shots than serious sports photography. It can be a pain to change the ISO digging through menus..

The D80 is going to drive that AF 180mm f/2.8 better than the D50 and for basketball the AF is a must for a beginner photographer or else too much frustration will ensue.

The D40 is cheap and a great camera. You can assign ISO to the Fn button, and you only then push Fn and rotate the command dial. No problem. The menu system is pretty good, too, because you can customize it. If you leave out all the stuff you don't use very often, it's much faster to go through the menus. The thing that really bugs me is I have to push the same button twice to change the important stuff like flash mode, metering mode, white balance. The first push lets you look at these settings, the 2nd lets you change them.

I would think you really want a fast zoom for basketball, rather than a prime, so look for one with AFS and it will be fine with the D40.

The D40 generally has around 1 stop less noise than the D40x, D60, D80 or D200. For some strange reason it is less good at HI-1 (3200 approx).

See, for example, www.imaging-resource.com and www.dpreview.com

As well as assigning ISO to the Fn button you can use auto ISO with shutter priority. This means that after setting a particular shutter speed the aperture will open up as the light gets less and after it is fully open the ISO will increase up to a programmable maximum of 1600. I prefer to do this and use the Fn button for white balance.

The non-VR 18-55 kit lens (AFS DX II) is pretty good optically. In some respects (vignetting and distortion) it is better than the 18-70. See www.photozone.de.

For the purpose of shooting basketball, which is mainly indoors, I wouldn't say the D200 is an overkill. In fact a D300, D700 or even D3 would be a much better choice. Indoor sports is one of the biggest challenges to DSLRs. Whether your son is interested in learning how to use a D200 or D300 is another issue, though, and of course your daughter may want an upgrade also. :-) But I would suggest get him the best DSLR you can reasonably afford.

I am adding Camera Addict to the bozo filter for this forum so that you can no longer post a link to that store that has a horrible user rating.

D80 would be better to begin with but it is a crop sensored camera, and the next trend would be the FX, so I would suggest you to get a FX body like D3 or D700, you may also cosider a second hand FX body for the learning process.

A D200 is not overkill. Turn it to auto and it works better than any P&S and it is no more complicated than a D40/60, but it can be made complicated if you desire. When I first got mine, I told the sales person I needed to use it right away. He said put it on program and shoot.

A 180 2.8 is a waste of time for sports unless it is autofocus. Screw drive AF does not work with D40/60, but they work well with 180 2.8 AFS lenses.

The only other problem is security at college for expensive items.

Now if you donate the D200, you need a new camera. Solution is simple for me.

The biggest reasons I'd get him something cheaper.

1. He's a college kid and stuff gets lost and stolen and broken all the time.

2. If he really has no interest in learning, it'll be great, and if he decides he does want to learn, it has what you need for that, too.

If the 180 is going, perhaps a used D50 or D70s?

IMHO a D50, D70 D80 or D200 should be considered. The 180mm f2.8 is a great lens but slow to focus for sports. An older 80-200 f2.8 should focus much faster. I much prefer the viewfinder of the D80 or D200.

Stephen, I'll echo Carl's recommendations. Forget about D40/60 and also so far as I know, there is no 180/2.8 AFS lens (?). I would say go for D70s or D80 -- the D80 in many ways is as good as the D200 and is better at high ISO than the D200. I only know the market here in UK but I presume it's similar in the US -- D80 cameras seem to hold their value and D200 cameras while good value will see their values drop more, comparatively. D200 may be a little overkill and the D3, D300, D700 would definitely be overkill. Finally, don't rule out film SLRs which are terrific value, used.

D70/D70s for the dual command wheels. And at $300 or so, it fits with Peter Hamm's #1.

I think the D40 is a great beginner lens. If its in your budget then go with the D80 but a D40 kit at $500ish isn't too much to spend on something you aren't entirely sure your son will pursue. He going to college, all sorts of crazy stuff can happen to your sons gear, it would be unfortunate to have his new $1000 camera stolen or broken, or have beer spilled on it, etc..

I've been using the D40 for over a year now and have found that it suited all of my needs perfectly, excellent beginner camera. I've shot both low light events and weddings using a fast lens with this body and have had no issues at all. I recommend the D40-D60 to anyone with a tight budget wanting a great entry level DLSR.

I think the current rate for a D80 kit is around the 1k mark where as a D40 kit would run about half. If you son out grows the D40 he can graduate to a much better camera if he seeks to reach beyond the basics. The help/information system built into the D40 is also great for beginners.

Stephen's 180mm lens is not going to work on a D40/D40x/D60 no matter how many times people go to those bodies in this thread.

The main difference, in my opinion, between the $300 D70/D70s and the $500/used-$725/new D80 will be about one stop of higher ISO performance.

The 180mm/f2.8 AF is not going to auto focus on the D40/D40x/D60, but you can always focus manually and use that combo to take pictures. Whether manual focusing is acceptable or not is up to the photographer to decide.

I suspect that the 180mm/f2.8 AF is not going to auto focus all that quickly on a D50, D70 and perhaps even a D80 anyway. It'll be a challenge in an indoor sports setting either way. That was why I pointed out that a D200 or even D300 would not be an overkill for the stated purpose.

Since you already have the D200, I would say let your son use the D200 + 180mm/f2.8 AF combo to shoot one basketball game and check the results. I suppose he photo skills will improve over time, but if he finds even the D200 limiting, you may then consider whether it makes sense to buy a lesser body.

I'd get a D60. Image quality should be higher than D80, and most new Nikon lenses are AF-S anyway.

"I'd get a D60. Image quality should be higher than D80,"

how so? the d60 and the d80 use the same exact 10 mp sensor. do you have any evidence to support this claim, or are you basically assuming that newer = better?

and as i said in my earlier post, the big issue with the d60 isnt compatibility with new af-s lenses, its older nikon (and 3rd party glass) lenses, particularly primes, which wont AF on a d60.

to put this in perspective, you make up the cost difference between a d60 and a d80 the first time you buy a fast prime (for low-light shooting). with the d80, you can get the affordable 50/1.8, which is $120. with a d60, if you want AF, you're basically looking at the sigma 30/1.4, which is $400 or the sigma 50/1.4, which isnt even available yet (both have HSM). the $300 nikkor 35/2 wont AF on a D60, neither will the 85/1.8. that's gonna continue to be be problematic for d40/d40x/d60 users until nikon updates its af-s lineup.

The D200 is not overkill. It can act as "simple" as any other dSLR...plus it can stand the rigors of a kid.

The D50 is now very affordable and it includes a AF motor. I cannot recommend the 40 or 60.

j

If you want a camera he'll use even if he doesn't get serious about photography, go with the D40. I use my D40 instead of my other cameras at family events or when I'm out with friends on a nice day. Why? Because it's light, compact, and makes great pictures- especially if he'll be shooting jpegs he won't need a higher pixel camera.

Lenswise, I like my old D40 kit lens for casual stuff, and the new VR is supposed to be good as well. D40 is good at high iso, so sports shouldn't be a problem (it's probably better than the d200 noisewise). You can always MF the 135mm, which would be a good thing to do if you want to learn about DOF, focus anticipation for sports, etc.

Even if he does get into photography, he'll still be happy with the camera, as well as having something smaller and less obtrusive to take wherever.

Thanks to all for the varied but well pointed advice. I might consider a D80, but would prefer the upgrade path: D700 for me, Give my D200 to my daughter, and give my son the D70 that my daughter is using. BYW, The 180/2.8 (af) works great at CL speeds in both the D200 & D70. I always shoot sports in S-priority (1/320), auto iso, dynamic group focus, and miss very little of the action, (even in CH on the D200). The 70-300 VR even performs flawlessly outdoors at CH. My biggest prob: dividing up the DX len's collection: as the D70 will get the 18-70 kit & 180/2.8, and my daughter would love the 18-200 VR on the D200. So I'll be spending a bit on FX len's as well..(.I have a 60 macro AF, and an old 35-70 & 28-85 AF from my F4 days....... ANY SUGGESTIONS??