Nikon F4

In switching from the F4 to the EOS cameras (EOS-1 to be exact) I found a more comfortable and reliable system. At first glance the F4 seems like a great camera. It's fast it's durable and you can use all the nifty lenses and gadgets Nikon has made for the past 20 or so years. But it can't compare in speed, efficiency and weight to function ratio (a very important consideration I think) to the pro EOS cameras.

The EOS system has allowed me to shoot almost as fast as my reflexes allow. No more fumbling around for a shutter speed dial near my viewfinder, no more "AF stutter" (my term for that jerky dance the F4 does with it's autofocus while you watch your shot dissapear) and also, no more ribbing (how ever good natured) from the AP staffers who finally showed me the light.

Canon allows me to do everything I ned to do without taking my eye away from the camera. So all i have to do is see and shoot. Isn't that why we got in this business in the first place?

I read this page with my tail between my legs. However, I would point out that the F4, with all it's faults is a tank of a camera. And, I know my that my forearm is stronger for it. I've owned mine for 10 years now and have never had it fail on me. Dropped it once from a height of 5 feet, something I don't generally recommend, and it survived fine. I think of it like an A1 abrahms tank: Full of gadgets and the defense department claims it can float in water but tank drivers steer clear of water, just in case.

The F-4 with the MB-20 ( smaller battery pack) is a much lighter and smaller unit . I use this set-up and like it a lot. Most of my F-4s are used underwater in Aquatica housings. I find it to be a better investment than the Nikonos or older Nikons. I would like to hear from other Underwater photographers using the F-4.

I've been using the F4 without the massive MB21 battery-pack for about 8 years now, and have been pretty happy with it. The criticisms about the location of dials etc seem to me to be quite superficial. This is a solid picture taking machine designed to last and last. So far it hasn't let me down, and none of my subjects have disappeard due to any focusing problems. Since I don't take sports pictures, I'm pretty happy with the focusing ability of the F4, and it will make no difference if the motor fires at 8frames per second or more (as in the F5). The F5 may be lighter, but the non-removable battery-pack seems to be a bit too big and awkward. As for Canon EOS, I'm a die-hard Nikon fan, so have never really thought about it. For a reliable picture taking machine, that handles well and feels solidly reassuring, the F4 can't be beat. Especially when combined with an FM2.

Having been a fan of Phil Greenspun's excellent work on the web I was more than a little disappointed with his banal ramblings and his out and out slagging off of the Nikon F4. Come on Phil its nowhere near as bad as you make out, I was beginning to think you hadn't even picked up an F4 judging from your comments. Canon and Nikon will always leap frog one another in terms of new features and I'm sure both have their good points. For what its worth, here are a few of my thoughts on the F4.

I am a die hard Olympus fan. I started with an OM1 & 2 (the fathers of all 35mm cameras) many years ago and now can't really afford to swap systems. But hey, *no-one* has a spot meter as good as the OM4Ti and neither Canon, Nikon nor anyone else has a macro lens & flash system as sharp and comprehensive as Olympus. But I digress.

I mostly do wildlife and so I needed a bigger lens to supplement my Zuiko 350mm f/2.8 and the Olympus 600m is too outdated. When the chance to pick up a bargain Nikkor 600mm f/5.6 arose I took it and then bought a camera to go with it. I got an F4s and I've never regretted it. Years ago I remember seeing pro wildlife snappers with this and thinking what a big ugly thing it looked compared to my OMs, but now I know I was just jealous :)

In terms of handling it is big, but it is very ergonomically designed. I find that all the buttons just fall into place at the finger tips, such as the exposure lock, DOF button etc. The shutter release is well positioned and while Phil was right about the on off switch being slightly fiddley, its not exactly difficult to master. Once I have switched mine on it doesn't get switched off till I've packed up for the day, so its especially no problem for me. There is a secondary shutter on the base of the motor drive which makes shooting in virtical mode a dream.

I don't have any problems with the shutter speed selection ring on the top plate as I rarely use this camera in manual mode (I only own the Nikkor 600mm) and when I'm shooting nature I use aperture priority mode. I wouldn't have thought, however, that it was any worse than Canon's thumbwheel, as I thought that controlled everything. So in addition to the thumbwheel you would still have to press/prod/poke or switch something else to make the thumbwheel select shutter speeds. The exposure compensation dial on the F4 is positioned well and I can easily increment exposure while still looking throught the view finder.

It may be a heavy camera, but I find that an advantage. When using this with the Nikkor 600mm and its huge front elements, I find the F4 acts as a counter balance and it is an absolute dream set up to use. I've managed sharp images (of a short-eared owl sat on a fence) at speeds of 1/8th using the 600mm and a 2x convertor. Its weight and ruggedness are also a bonus if you happen to drop this camera. It will stand up to quite severe punishment. A friend was in a repair shop the other day and the guy was talking about how tough these Nikons were. He showed my pal a Canon EOS1 that had exploded on impact after being dropped from a not very great height.

As an aside, the F4 won't stifle my creativity by fogging my Kodak high speed infra red film!

finally, in answer to some of Phil's other wailings:

Loading the film is a piece of cake, if Phil finds this tough I can only assume he has webbed hands or something (go on admit it, you have haven't you, that's why you keep knocking the meter selection dial to spot metering). Rewind is a simple operation too and there are two versions of rewind so I can change film mid-roll without the film leader being completely wound back into the cassette. OK, so with the F4 you can't check the DX film speed, but I thought the idea of DX was that you DIDN'T have to. If you feel the need to keep checking the DX film speed, why use it? Set the speed manually, oh but then how would you check the camera was using the correct film speed then :) DX can be over-ridden too. The self timer may not be adjustable but this is a gimmick feature (IMHO). 10 seconds is about right, two seconds wouldn't have given the camera time to stop vibrating after you'd pressed the shutter release and unless you are Clark Kent it wouldn't give you much time to get into your picture. Why use the timer as a substitue cable release? There are already facilities for both manual and electronic cable release. How many more do you need?

Sorry Phil, but I thought your 'review' of the F4 not up to your usual standard (cf your rollei review). It sounded very much like you were trying to justify your error in switching to Canon :)

The reader should be aware that any comments in this vein are highly subjective and a strong function of shoting style and other factors.

My thinking is that it's a shame that Nikon succumbed to the Canon paradigm by burying all those camera functions behind a gaggle of non-descript dial and wheel thingys. My experience with Canon is limited to the A2 which I have struggled with frequently. The notion that one dial has a certain function in one mode and another function in another mode violates the cardinal principle of sound user interface design, and certainly has the effect of befuddling the beejeesus out of me at just that critical time when I need a fast and unambiguous response from the camera.

After waiting for years for the F5, now that I've seen it, I've gone out and bought an F4s. I hope to get another before they are relegated to the dustbin of history. The speed with which I can get done what I need to get done is a direct consequence of its clear and simple design. I find that the things which are harder to do (e.g., requiring two simulataneous actions) are precisely the ones I wouldn't want to have happen inadvertently (like changing the exposure compensation on the A2 when the much lauded rear control dial brushes against my nose...ugh!) The accessories are fantastic and varied, and access to used and new lenses unmatched. I like the 300/4 USM Canon lens, and they make a fine 1.4x converter as well, but when the Canon comes out of the bag it's autopilot and hope...with the Nikon I'm in full control and the results are predictable. It matches perfectly the way I make images, your mileage may vary.

Reviews like this are what make good deals for people like me. I owned an F3 since they were introduced in the US longer ago than I want to think. I really loved it, still do. Unfortunately age eliminated my ability to manual focus, even with glassed and high eyepoint prism I added about 5 years ago. I sold it with a tear in both eyes even though I got more than I originally paid. I purchased a used F4 (9+) last October with 28-85 AF Nikkor for $1200 from a fellow who had the same attitude toward the camera as you. The price was unbelievable!

I am not a professional, just a serious amature. However, I do use my camera in situations that lightweights could not tollerate for long. I travel extensively and pass through airport security areas that require xray. I work in harsh environments that punish equipment. Try that with your plastic body.

I recently returned from Madagascar with my F4 where we both went into country few people have ever visited...National Geographic kind of areas. I used the MB20, 4 battery pack. Yes the camera was large and somewhat heavy, but I came back with pictures with quality and sharpness that I haven't seen from my hands in years. Yes, I have used lightweights that are supposedly as good as this camera. THEY ARE NOT! I don't even miss my old F3 anymore.

Ergonomics, smirgonomics. All good cameras have switches all over them. I want something that you have to deliberately turn on and off. Slide switches can accidently be turned on and off. DX'g? This idea is to make film speed selection automatic. If you don't trust it, set the film speed manually! My only objections to the F4 are the plastic prism top and the fact that the F4 was only sold in the US with the usually unnecessary MB21 battery pack. I agree that combination was awkward.

Thanks again for the bad review. I got a very good deal.

John Fraser.

There is an interesting page with F4 advocacy, comparison to other Nikon cameras and specs at

http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/users/j/jnweg/html/f4faq.htm.

Look into it for some counterarguments to Phil's F4-bashing.

I have written a response to Phil's article, comparing the same three cameras he compares. To check out an article from someone who has used the F4 extensively as well as the other two he refers to then please check out the following url http://www.lisp.com.au/~mmphoto/nikons.htm

I own and use regularly an EOS1n and an F4. they are two different beasts. The F4 has the best handling 'for what I wish to do with it' of any camera I have used. Used with my 500mmf4 lens it allows me to keep my left hand on the focus ring and change all the important rhs body controls such as meter settings, meter patterns, motor speed etc with the fingers of my right hand. This is something you CANNOT do with any of the N90/8008 models. To do it with them requires you to remove your left hand from the lens focus ring, lower the camera, press a button, whirl a wheel and lift the whole lot back up again.......and of course while you do that the otter/wolf/bear/nessie/sasquatch/lord lucan/elvis has disappeared! The EOS1 is different but excellent for what I do with it. Build quality? Anything will break if you abuse it enough.....try them both ...they have their strengths and weaknesses... and at the end of the day the most important piece of equipment lies 6 inches behind the camera! Good Luck!

I'd been using my FM2 for a little ove 11 years before I purchased the F4s. I have always considered the FM2 to be an easy camera to handle, until I got my F4s! Now I use the F4s constantly, with no problems like those you have mentioned.I've almost forgotten how to use my trusty FM2!!!!

Having gotten a chance to handle an F4s at a local shop, I must say that I think that they laid out the controls of the F4 with F3 users in mind. One quick glance and I could find the film speed setting, exposure compensation, MLU lever, double exposure switch, etc.

I can see how the F4 must confuse users of the N6006, N8008(s) and N90(s), but it clearly wasn't designed for them. Whether one interface is better than the other is a matter of taste, but clearly the layout of the controls on the F4 was well thought out.

I'm almost suprised that Nikon stopped production of the F4 when the F5 was release --the two models don't really seem to be in competition (much like the F3 and the F4). AF is clearly the leading feature of the F5, and must rank about 3rd or 4th on the F4 (somewhere behind the meter, and the shutter speeds/x-synch).

I switched to Nikon from Minolta about 8 years ago. I began with an F4, then added an 8008s, and lastly a N90. My favorite is the F4 for its design and weight. The controls were closest to my old Minolta's. I find the weight an advantage to getting sharp pictures. I use the F4 for close-up and landscapes and the N90 for wildlife. The 8008s is just a back-up which usually has print film in it. If a petite female can handle two of these cameras, what's the matter with you gentleman? Each camera has its strengths and draw backs and it depends on how you shoot as to what's the most appropriate. Canon's a great system too with many strengths. I'd love an EOS with a 90mm TS lens. I think the F5 is super, but is just too big to handle and fit in a bag. I do use the smaller battery pack on my F4. Well, there's my two bits, if anyone's interested.

I have used F4 (and F4s) for some years now and agree that there is a host of features to be critical about, besides the problems already discussed. a) location of the cable release socket (....) b) lack of electrical release socket on the MB20 battery pack c) lack of vertical release on the MB20 There are good things to say, but that is natural for a "professional" camera (whatever that means). For me, the only reason to opt for the F4 instead of F801s/N8008s was the availability of the M type finder screen for microscopy...but just why Nikon failed to integrate metering modes other than spot into the body is quite a mystery - giving us another halfbaked camera (ok: the other AF bodies are crap because you cannot see the aperture setting of lenses without CPU in the finder - Nikon-style compatibility to push you to buy new stuff for normal convenience levels).

Being the owner of a F4S since its introduction, I was, of course, quite disappointed with your comments (or shall I say complaints?) about it. Yes, in certain ways it has its drawbacks in terms of its weight and other minor tweaks but one cannot compare them with the reliability and strength of the F4S system. Being a rather rough user of cameras, I have put mine through all possible inhospitable terrains that one can ever imagine. Yet, the trusty F4S has never failed me once. Now even with a nasty crack on the DP-20 view-finder, it is still giving endless satisfaction from this battle-proven workhouse. My only regret is that Nikon has stopped its production on an otherwise brillant camera.

Having used a Nikon F-4 for four years, in the studio, on location, in the classroom and while traveling I have come to the conclusion that the F-4 is a precise and utterly reliable instrument capable of performing superbly and without fail. Outside the studio the 4 "AA" batterypack is best. The camera is as sturdy as a brick; but its well balanced design feels very comfortable after using it all day. The viewfinder diopter adjustment is great for eyeglass wearers because it reduces eyestrain while providing maximum sharpness. The bright image and clearly displayed info. offers me just what I want. A body is only as good as the lenses you can attach to it. The Nikon line offers me quality and reliability along with variety that I do not believe are matched by the competition. I enjoy Phillip's perspective and recommend his site to my students, but he should know that he did not give the F-4 an adequate chance.

I have worked with Pentax, Canon and Nikon for many years. When it was time for me to upgrade to AF, I traded in my Canon T90s for Nikon F4. I agree that the AF is not as good as on EOS and I sure miss the thumbweel. Add the rewind mechanism and the plastic top - I would really like an answer from the makers on that. But.... I bought Nikon because Canon EOS has this plastic-fantastic feeling. The flashsystem stinks and is no way near Nikon4s, the lightmeter is not as good, and (in Norway) they are way behind when it comes to handling the customer. If I take my F4 to Nikons for a checkup, I have it back within a few days. At Canon, you have to wait for weeks.

I envy Canonusers the AF and the fast zooms, but nothing more. As long as you stay away from Nikon4s zooms (I haven4t tried the newest 80-200 2,8) and stick to the fixed lenses, this camera is on top. If you4re looking for fast AF combined with Nikon quality, buy F5.

I suspect Phillip's opening comments on a borrowed F4 were only intended to stimulate discussion, and were thus intentionally inflammatory. So, for a little balance, I'll point out that I strongly disagree with his review. After 5 years of F4s use, I continue to marvel at the quality and joy of use of the camera. Duane Galensky already said above quite elegantly what I would like to second, namely that the "analog style" interface used on the F4s is superior to the fiddly "digital computer type" interface on my 6006 (which I never use). In an urgent shooting situation (which ones aren't :-) the most important feature is to be able to unambiguously monitor all critical camera information. The F4s was designed from the start to do just this, I feel, and it does it well. As someone else pointed out, functions on the 6006-type interface that require 2 hands (one to toggle a mode switch, one to adjust ISO, for example) clearly place these cameras into the raw amateur realm. When I'm shooting nature, one hand stays on the lens focusing ring, the other does anything else that's necessary. Finally, F4s ergonomics are wonderful. It's heavy, but the moment I picked one up at a swap meet and ran it through on fast advance was the moment I knew I needed one. The fast, damped mirror action makes the difference between getting the catchlight in the bird's eye and missing it with a 6006.

I own 2 Nikon F4S. I`ve dropped each around 7 times. Both have been drenched dozens of times during assignments. I don`t think when using it`s functions. Both have never let me down in any way what so ever, even after dropping on concrete. Canon? I just don`t think so. Of course easy dials & light weight help when you are not good at handling a camera or generally taking pictures under pressure.

I never really dropped my F4, but one day i had to spend $1000 on readjusting the camera mount. I don't take too much care using the F4, but it is definitely not inbreakable. Who ever said the F4 is top high tech?? it is the link between MF and AF Nikon's. No other Nikon offers you Matrix metering with AI lenses! Canon switched to a new mount system....sure, shutter speed and aperture are not nicely located in the view finder, but even 30 year old lenese aperture can be seen in the view finder. I gave up using the AF of the F4 it is too old...and slow and...but for my needs i am fast enough using MF, if you don't agree try first or look at the F5 this is the answer to all the high tech stuff people were missing for years, a little late, but great, but.....using old equipment on an F5, possible, but no Matrix, no aperture in the view finder and and and....and last but not least, the bare F4 is not too heavy for everyday shots, the F4s is maybe, but i really liked the commercial: big, heavy, complicated, expensive F4 the F4s combinde with the 2,8/80-200mm is nicely balanced and i am definnitely not Arnold! i like my F4 the old fashioned style.

Phil seems to be a fan of Canon's A2. It's funny, because I switched from the A2 to the F4 a couple of years ago and do not regret it. The photos which came out of the Canon were great--I can't see much difference between the Canon product and the Nikon product. However, the A2 was frustrating to use. No mirror lock up was a pain. The 2 sec psuedo lock up feature didn't cut it. I did like the dials controlling the aperture and speed, but I hated the little buttons you had to press to change functions. I much prefer the switches and dials of the F4. Changing from matrix to spot metering and back is easy with the F4. My biggest gripe was having to pull my eye away from the viewfinder to check settings. With the F4 I can keep my eye on the subject and change any function and verify it in the viewfinder. The A2's viewfinder lacked 100% coverage and exposure number. DOF preview is also easier on the F4. Plus, it's built like a tank. The A2 felt like a toy. I always felt like I had to be careful with it. I realize that these two cameras are not exactly in the same class (F4 is over twice as expensive), but the A2 is representative of the direction modern cameras are taking. I love my F4 with it's MF-23 and 105/2.8 micro AIS.

I have my F4E and F90x as a backup for over four years now. One or two years ago I had this vacation trip to Bali island in my country Indonesia. I was in heavy rain when i walked down for maybe 2 miles to my car after shot lots of rolls of a big traditional dance ceremony. When i got into the car, i immediatelly checked my equipment and all inside the bag were wet. i got 1 inch water because i forgot to zip the bag completely (Thats the stupid things ive done). The F4 was okay, so was the 80-200/2.8, 35-135, 50/1.4, 24/2.8, SB-26, but different story for the F90x ( its abolutely dead). I fixed it at local pro shop and it cost me 1/3 of the body price. Lucky me, my F4 still capable to get some nice pictures of the island. From my opinion, F90x is far better advanced than the F4, but if you dont want to care your camera like a baby, F4 is the choice. Ive dropped it four times, put it in water like it was an submarine camera, and it works perfectly like a tank, no messy problem. It only has two tiny weeny scratch in the bottom and thats it. It heavy though, but no plastic fantastic feeling ( I hate that). It makes you feel confident to take those great pictures in your mind. And the more you experience with it, youll have no problem with the weight.

I get tired of people complaining of the F4's weight. It wasn't designed to be a cute little point and shoot camera. F4's are usually mounted behind even heavier lenses on a monopod. I shoot sports with the F4, and find the weight (and autofocus) perfectly fine in these situations for it was designed. I also like the fact that all controls are a one step process. I do feel, however, that the construction might be overkill for one who simply carries it around for travel photos with a 50mm lens.

After reading all of your posts I feel like the most unlucky person. I have used my F4 just for a studio work with clean and safe inviroment. But two days ago it lost its power suddenly. I can't belive it. I am waiting from the Nikon Sevice to find the problem. Anyone has similar problem? Chau Doan

I have no problem with the F4's ergonomics, which, curiously, seems to cause extreme love or hate in the user. However, I can fully understand Philip Greenspun's complaint about the weight of the F4, for I often feel the same way when I'm carrying my F4s around for an extended period of time. Using the MB-20 battery pack does reduce the weight, but I much prefer having the vertical grip provided by the MB-21. To help carry this weighty beast around, I use an Op/Tech Pro Strap, which I sling diagonally across my shoulder rather than around my neck, and a handstrap -- not the Nikon AH-4 Handstrap, which is designed like a masochistic bondage device, but a cheaper Japanese brand that allows the hand to easily slip in and out of the leather hand piece. However, the weight of the F4s makes it a very steady camera to hold. This coupled with the camera's excellent mirror and shutter vibration control, help to reduce the chance of camera-shake. Despite my occassional grumble, I consider the weight factor a small price to pay for a camera that makes taking good picture (technically, at least) a fairly easy thing to do.

After reading all your stories about F4s being used as hammers for several years without ill effects I find that mine is broken after three years of tender loving care. It persistently refuses to load film and seizes up. It makes me want to cry.

I couldn't disagree more with this review. I don't actually own an F4, but I've borrowed the one my college newspaper's photo department owns quite a bit, and I've used it with an 80-200 quite a bit as well. The ergonomics are a big part of the reason I like it so much. It's a heavy camera, but there's plenty of room to hold on. The lack of space to hold on was my number one complaint about my N90s before I bought the MB-10 (with the MB-10, it's a great body, but I'd still rather shoot with an F4). This might not be an issue for people who drag out their camera once or twice a month to do some landscape shots, but if you've ever shot stuff like sports or theater, or anything where you have to hold on to a camera for a couple of hours at a time, it can get irritating to have a body that leaves you no place to put your pinky. That's not a problem if you're using a 50 mm lens, but anytime I've got an 80-200 on the camera, I find I need that extra grip just for the leverage. The vertical shutter release is also something that shouldn't be ignored. This is probably one of the most valuable features of this camera (I think it makes the MB-10 for the N90s well worth the cost). Again, this might not be something you appreciate if you only shoot three or four rolls a month, but if you get to the point where you shoot twenty or thirty rolls a month, it's a great feature. I also really appreciate other things like silent advance and the option to rewind manually (a fairly important feature if you shoot any theater or other such performances). At this point, I think those are the features I would have liked most if they were on my N90s (and I've shot with 8008s and 6006 before; I know the controls are essentially the same). The only reason I have an N90s instead of an F4 is the price. That's not to say I think the N90s is a bad body; I love it, but I would still rather have an F4.

After switching from Minolta, I decided to buy an F4s (in 1999). A few comments:

1) I've found the AF fine for everything I shoot, up to and including flying birds. I'm sure I'd get a few more "keepers" if I used an F5 to shoot birds in flight, but since this isn't a primary use, I can't see tormenting myself with an interface I don't really care for on the F5.

2) The weight of the F4s and a 80-200 f2.8 doesn't bother me. I use an Optech strap, and the camera is perfectly comfortable on a 5 mile walk. However, I can certainly see that the weight could be an issue for some people.

3) The ergonomics of the camera are terrific. I started out with manual cameras and find the controls refreshing compared to the LCD panels and overabundance of small buttons and switches.

4) Film unloading????? I haven't had a problem getting the film out of the camera. I don't have a clue where Philip was going with this comment.

5) Self timer as a remote release? OK, let me get this straight: You'll carry an F4, a lens, a tripod, and a ballhead. But you won't carry a remote release cord that you can stick in your pocket?

To sum it up, obviously I like the F4, and Philip switched to Canon. I'm sure that if Philip and I wound up standing next to each other, we wouldn't exchange any harsh words about camera choice, and I'm sure we're both happy with our choice of gear.

I don't find the F4s being heavy at all. In fact, I've tried out the F4E and I still don't find any problem with it. The metering mode switch cannot be any more convenient than that, click click click and you can switch between spot, center weight, and matrix in a split second! Besides, I don't recall EOS having any changeable view finder. Also, try to drop the F4s with an AI-S 300mm f/2.8 from shoulder length (unfortunately I had this experience), both items are still in working conditions after the drop. Care to drop a Canon EOS-1N or the EOS-1N RS?

I have had 2 F4s since 1994 and in 1997, bought 2 F5. I just have to say that the F4s is by far the sexiest camera ever designed on this planet.

For anyone who has used it, it feels so good to the grip. And all those analogue style controls for program mode, shutter speed, compensation etc. I would say they are superior to the F5's command input style. Yes, we all can learn the new interface but given a choice, I would prefer the old style. Why ? Because you can remember and change the settings without having to look or press combinations of keys. I can practically change settings just by hearing the clicks.

If Nikon had retained the body of the F4 and updated the electronics inside with what the F5 has, I am sure there will be lots of people who would love it.

And weight wise, the 200 or so grams does not really make any difference anymore when you carry lens such as 80-200, 20-35 and 35-70 plus SB-24/25/26 flash and then there is a second body and maybe even a 300mm f2.8 with converters.

Unfortunately, production of the F4 has ceased and all those remaining units out there will be sold in the next 2 years. If I had lots of money, I would buy 3 or 4 more F4s bodies and use them as spares. At least it would hopefully last my lifetime since Nikon promised only to support it with spare for the next 10 years or so.

Hi!

I am a die-hard Nikon fan, I purchased F401, F601 before 7 years ago, and bought F4 four years ago, I enjoyed the system so much, unfortunately, after I used (and bought ) F5 , I decline use F4 . Big point is for its meter system, I wonder and amazing the F5 3D RGB system, I took brilliant picture which I never saw by my F4 , I use A and P mode for most of time, but I just want to I prefer F5's meter system than its focus. At least, most of Nikon lens have no motor ,so I can't feel any faster than Canon (except AFS lens). I honest to show my opinion, I disappoint that F100 's meter system is similar to F90X, so I don't expect F80 will improve much than F70.

Wow! It's been four years since my last posting on this discussion group... But it's great to see the debate continuing potentially into the next century... I'm staffing (far and away from Philly- it's playoff time and my Sixers jersey is a big bullseye out here) for the Indianapolis Star now, shooting with the EOS 1n's, and as ironic as it may be, I was also issued an F4! Seems my preference for the 300 f.4 (all the magnification, half the conspicuosness) let the only other available 300 2.8 go to the pool cabinent for basketball, while I took an F4 and a 300 2.8 for emergency use... I kinda like having it for that limited purpose, generaly for compression shots, and the occasional spot news- also it frees up my two Canon bodies for other stuff . But one thing I found I liked was taking out some of the older Nikkor primary (read steel and glass- no plastic/electronics) lenses for quick walkabout assignments... I really loved the brightness of the non-compund lenses namely the Nikkor 35mm 1.4... I'd love to find another F2 in all honesty, kinda a poor man's Leica right? Anyway, it's nice to see this posting is still breathing... Keep responding!

Mpozi Mshale Tolbert (;=

(Former Philadelphia AP Stringer- "I came, I signed (the contract) I found myself another way to make a living...")

Sorry but the F4 is a jewel and will remain so until the last unit vaporises into thin air. I have used and abused this camera to the point where no EOS could ever withstand and still the measurements are precise.

MY F4 has survived two Safaris to Botswana without failure. I sold 25 shots from each trip. Made enough to pay for three F4s.Works for me!Plus, I see why all you are photogs and not writers. Please take a spelling course, or two. You ned to lern to spel gooder.Ok, fire back.

Since last week I am the proud onwer of a F-4s. I was looking already for some time for a good camera I could also use compleet manually. After reading all the great things you all wrote about this camera I changed al my (manual) minolta stuff for this great F-4s....... Because I am used to work with manual camera's ( My point of view still only the real way of making pictures ) I would like to ask you all if there are some nice F-4 users who can give my some good tips and/or ideas for making nice pictures with this great camera........... , or maybe you know some other nice www pages to visit. So please sent some e-mails so that I can have the full experince with this F-4s.

I've owned my F4 for about a year now, having "graduated" from a 6006, which I use as a backup body. I can agree with almost all the pros and cons (weight seems the most persistent). The only problem I have with mine concerns film unloading. When I reload standing up with a strap around my neck, I find that the strap keeps the back from opening fully; hence the back wants to close, and I need one hand to hold it open. Since the "rewind lever" shaft has a tendency to fall back down into the film spool, I feel that sometimes 3 hands are needed to unload/load the film. Once the roll is inserted, film loading is flawless.

I just got back from a trip to the Angkor area in Cambodia, and my shots of the temples were fantastic.

I cant believe anyone could bag the nikon F4. I owned a F4s for 4 years and never had one problem with it. It is a vey solid tool. I now use Canon.(eos3, eos1n) Now the simple fact is the Nikon F4 is built like a tank and is an excelent performer. Everyone knows it is slow to autofocus but that is its only drawback (if you need it). It is heavy, but you get used to it. Had the F5 been released earlier I would have brought it for its faster autofocus.(sports photography) Instead I brought an eos1n and eos3. They dont come close to the Nikon F5 nad F4 in build quality. That is not to say that Canon make cheap cameras, Canon cameras are also very well built, it is just that Nikon go that extra bit futher in constuction. I love both Nikon and Canon pro cameras and believe they are both excelent systems. When it comes down to it they both perform at the same level. Some canon lenses are better than Nikon and some Nikon Lenses are better than canon. Its totally personal prefrence. In my opinion anyone that says either the F4,F5,F100 or Eos1n,Eos3 are not great cameras have never used these cameras or are just having them selves on. I would confidently use any of these cameras professionally.

Damian

One tends to be philosophical after long years away from the subject. I had a Nikon 1969 F and also a 1974 F2, it was beautiful machines then and took the most satisfying pictures. One day, I got my F2 stolen with my bag of lens and the only thing left is my Nikon F and 50mm SC 1.4 lens, as long as I care to remember, I parted with photography and went into the "real" world to get my fair share of material things. Twenty years went by quickly, I now have an urge to revisit where I left off with my previous life and I bought a Nokon F4.

To my surprise, my twenty years plus Nikon lens can still be used with the F4, it still takes good picture, the F4 still has the familiar feel of my old true Nikon F which by itself still functioning fine after all these years.

I go into so much trouble to describe this is because I think Nikon is a traditionalist's camera, it takes pain and a self concious attitude to maintain your tradition. You will not have immediate gratification of the latest and greatest toy of the day, but after twenty years and begining of the graying process, you will know the difference.

I own an F4s and I have only one resevation about buying this machine,If you need rear curtain synch for falsh photography,you have a choice of three discontinued flash guns (SB24,25,26).Nikon Japan have run out of spare parts for the SB24 so no chance of mending after spending precious bucks.Nikon recomend buying the SB26 as they have 5 years worth of spares,this is normal Nikon practice that once a flashgun has become discontinued,normal servicing and fixing of problems will continue for five years.I just returned from a trip to the philipines where I used an SB15 which blew on me and that was with careful use,only to find that Nikon Japan do not mend this Item anymore.It is clear that once the SB25 and SB26 spares run out there will be no flashgun to use with the F4 which will do rear curtain synch.The new line of Nikon bodies incorporate rear curtain and slow synch so no problem for those owners.I hope a third party manufacturer comes up with a gun for the F4.Does Nikon U.S.A. and Europe employ the same policy?

I was recently examining a used F4 at a local dealer. The camera caught my eye because it was on sale for an unusually low price. Being a manual-focus user, I was impressed by the lack of computerization on this model. Granted, the autofocus is terrible, but I wouldn't use it anyway. This camera is truly the link between MF and AF, and if you wanted a rugged alternative to an F3 with shutter speeds up to 1/8000 sec. and multi-mode metering, the F4 would be an excellent choice, if you can put up with the weight.

Having just discovered your forum I have the advantage to read all about and so I am able to be more focusing on F4 pros and cons and beeing using an F4s since ten years now I like to give my small contribution. Here are some of my comments. I agree about the weight and many of the (small in my opinion) defects as reviewewd "Nikon F4 by Philip Greenspun for photo.net." (infact I think as - Zaheer Baber, March 31, 1997 Phil Greenspun's excellent work on the web I was little disappointed with his ramblings about the Nikon F4) but I also agree (Mpozi Tolbert, December 13, 1996) with tank comparison. I will certainly have some doubts in using it in fashion photo with a 300mm on, but using the equipment up in the mountains (and god knows about all the weight together with the lenses, with tripod and so on..) I'd rather want to be sure that (in many cases in places I will probably never go back) every shot is secure. Having to worry about kms of mountain paths, rain, sometime snow and ice, finding the right place, the right light, the right angle etc.. I do not want to worry about the equipment. In this respect I must say that I did not have one single failed shot. If it had happened was something of my fault or inexperience. The camera was always working very well. So I can easily forget about back cable release, 2 hands film loading and the whole lot of small so called defects As stated by Steven Keirstead, (April 23, 1997) Yes the camera is large and heavy, but when I come back with pictures the quality and sharpness is superb (ok ok it depends also by the film...) One negative point is that also in Italy after the introduction of th F5 the F4 is even disappeared from price lists but on the contrary who has one is keeping it very tight. Finally I hope -- james moegaron, (May 29, 1999) - will forgive my spelling as ... I am not english.

All the best to you all from Genova, the Christopher Columbus native land, in Italy.

I just bought an F4 on top of my 1992 FM2. I compared it to a friends Cannon in passing, and found that to be such a toy-like 'feeling' camera (plastick body and lens, what seemed like plastick viewfinder glass etc) that I did not even lock at the model number. Anybody that makes models like that is dead meat for me (even the N60 feels much nicer). Maybe Canon's AF is faster, but I love using my old 105/2.5 AIS, 24/2.8 AIS etc. for another 10 years. Granted, the power-on button of the N60/70/90/100 and F5 is much nicer + the F5/100 electronic DOF is great; but that's were it ends. I like a solid brick feel, for as little as $450 (FM2 new) or $695 (F4 used OK shape, both on Web recently). BTW: how does an LCD display (F100, F5 etc) work in Death Valley, at 12:00 noon in July: not very well for long I presume (LCD's heal when returned to room temp).

I switched in 1991 from the Olympus system to Nikon AF because I found my ability to focus critically and quickly in the iffy light of weddings, receptions, etc. was not what it used to be. Chose the Nikon F4S over Cannon EOS without a great deal of thought. Bought, then sold, an 8008S as 2d body because I did not like fooling with the control knob or trying to read the LCD display--particularly in low light. Bought a 2d F4S body, used, and expect to use them until I quit doing 35mm photography. The F5 is terrific, but, you see, it has one of those damned little etch-a-sketch windows to read. I can set my F4s in the dark (and sometimes do), and verify settings with a glance in the studio with or without my glasses.

Second point: The new AF-S lenses focus as quickly as any on the market I believe. It's not the camera, it's the lens. AF with my original f 2.8 80-200 and 35-70 was, admittedly, awfully slow--even a reluctant groom being dragged up the aisle could be a challenge.

Third point: I use a couple of non-AF lenses with the camera (the 400mm f3.5 and the 28mm PC, purchased used or demo, with no problem). Ditto for the TC14-B and TC301 converters. As lens technology continues to evolve the attraction of being able to use older lenses fades, but there are some good oldies, particularly special purpose lenses, that can be used with the F4. Not so with the pre-EOS Cannon lenses.

The camera bodies are indeed heavy, and my briefcase-elbow aches after a couple of hours' work with them, but I find them extremely stable platforms for handheld shooting and extremely durable for a klutz like me.

I, too, sometimes experience failure-to-load on my first attempt to load film, but once you hold your mouth right you'll succeed. There is, of course, that funny but sad clip of a National Geo shooter covered with BIG mosquitos out in the jungle trying repeatedly to load his F4 in one of their NG photographers series, but it always makes me feel my troubles are easier to bear. (It's also a good idea not to be on frame 32 when the flower girl starts down the aisle regardless of what camera you use.)

And, Phil, I've even mastered the one-handed turn-the-camera-on or switch-the-function trick. Well, maybe not "mastered", but I CAN do it sometimes with the camera held at my eye!

I have kept and never sold all my Nikon bodies (14, from F to F4) and 25 manual lenses from 15 to 300mm. My wife is an EOS 1 happy photographer with many outstanding images made possible by (her eye)and the fastness and "natural" operating way of Canon great match between L lenses and pro body. Some time we switch Nikon with Canon and always we share our treasured Leica extensive M and R system. We are extensive travellers and have carried different cameras around the world from Antartica to the Sahara. Conclusions: F4 is good for me, autofocus is of great help for my difficult eyesight (diffrent glasses for long and short sight), dials are very traditional and do not require any adapatation for old time photographers, good (for japanese standards) old AIS lenses are usable with all metering modes, feeling with the heavy metal body is reassuring. Canon EOS 1: excellent L lenses, much better than Nikkors, speed of operation unequalled, plastic body is actually very very sturdy.

Nevertheless: if you have a young excellent eyesight, finger faster than any ultrasonic motor, throw all that japanese crap in the dustbin and get negs that once enlarged to 11x14 or more won't show the difference with 6x6 or even a 4x5: buy Leica.

I read an earlier comment that "REAR" sync cannot be set on the F4. In Michael Huber/ Magic Lantern Guide for SB-28, 1999 edition, pg 98 states that this adjustment can be set on the camera. However, in his same book, the compatibility chart omitted this function for F4??

Could someone verify if this is true?

NOW WE HAVE LEICA FANS!

Anyway, I have noticed that the entire line of Nikon cameras have always had a more sturdy and solid feel than their matching Canon counterpart. The F4 has an awesome solid feel that is a pleasure to shoot with. It has great metering and great compatibility.

By the way I do not agree that Canon L lenses are better that Nikkors.

If I thought I could justify the extra cost then I would dump my F4s and get the F5. The F5 is a better camera no doubt. It's meter is as perfect as you are going to find. With my F4 I often over and under-expose my shots just to try and bring out more detail that the meter was not able to account for. The problem with this is that I waste alot (and I mean ALOT) of film to get that perfect shot. This is a problem for those one chance shots. With the F5 you are guaranteed to expose the film perfectly. As for the F5's LCD becoming problematic in Death Valley: This is not possible with the temperatures in Death Valley. I was there in August and it was 120 degrees Fahrenheit. This is not hot enough to damage any LCD not even the LCD in the old F3. But it is hot enough to fry your Bbraein! I will say that the F5 does eat up batteries though.

Nikon's AF-S lenses focus very very fast, as fast as any! But for what I do the plain AF lenses focus fast enough for me.

The F4s is heavy but if you switch out the MB-21 battery pack with the MB-20 battery pack (which holds 4 AA's) then you will see it is a much much lighter camera with a still solid feel. It will still perform the same but the battery life drops by more than half.

The F4 is a world class camera that can compete against any of it's competitors and in my opinion exceed them.

I just wanted to comment that there ARE third party flash units that will work with the Nikon F4 in rear curtain synch mode. My Promaster is one of them, and I believe that most others (sunpak, sigma, etc..)should have this function too. Just one more note on the Promaster, it's not as versatile as a Nikon SB speedlite,(no fine tuning in ttl fill flash mode)and it's not as well built, so the SB 24/25/26 would still be the better choice.

Robert Mossack

To me, the beauty of the F4 is that its controls are very traditional...no thumbwheels or other fiddly controls. Each control does only one thing, and there's no tiny LCD screen chock-a-block with tiny unintelligible pictograms and icons which I find so infuriating on the F5 and Canon products.

Yes it's heavy, especially with the MB-23 that I use on mine. But it fits my hands perfectly, and feels excellent all the way around...

To each his own... that's my philosophy. Some find the F4's control layout a godsend and others find it to be an ergonomic nightmare.

I bought my F4 this year (feb 2000) and have not regretted it. The only feature that I wished it had was auto bracketing, but that solved this week when I finally tracked down a beaten used MF-23 back for only $150.

I came from manual cameras like the Pentax 67 and original Contax RTS... so the controls on the F4 were second nature to me and ideal. Yes I agree with the poster who made the comment about how the F4 seemed to be designed for those moving over from an F3. I never used and EOS or a Minolta, who's controls are more LCD based.

Is the autofocus slow? By all means yes when compared to today's top of the line slrs. However, the speed is plenty fine for my shooting style and subjects. I would hate to use my F4 for sports or fast moving swinging monkeys!

Is it heavy? Of course...it's a tank. and if one doesn't like the weight, then go with something lighter. The weight helps balance the camera very well with heavy lenses.

Having shot with a Pentax 67, Hassy 500c, and an older RTS for the past several years, the F4 has been great . All the modern features of autoexposure, exp comp, builtin motordrive, molded grip, removable prism for waist level, 3 modes of metering, and AUTO focusing! But I can understand why others who have shot with more automated SLRs are frustrated when they compare it's speed to say a Canon EOS 1...the EOS is a speed demon.

I enjoy shooting with my F4 and would encourage potential buyers to at least consider it. If it fulfills your needs, then don't be afraid to get it. If it doesn't fulfill your style then by all means get a new F100 or F5.

I just recently acquired a Nikon F4s for US $540. It had many problems. The viewfinder was full of muck, the eyepiece shutter is stuck, the ASA speed dial moved freely and wont fix, The depth of field button is stuck, R1 and R2 levers were stuck with mud, and as a whole, it didn’t look like a decent camera at all. But it was an F4. For the next few days I whipped out a cleaning cloth and a few drops of oil, soap, lens cleaner, armor all, dental floss, and gentle rubbing and cuddling. All the problems mentioned above were fixed and the camera looks and functions perfectly. Compared side by side to a newer F4s, there wasn’t much difference to spot the $540 camera to the $1450 camera beside it. The inside of the both bodies were pristine and very clean. I’m not sure if you can do this to any other camera, even to the F5 or Canon EOS3 or any LCD based bodies.

Indeed a very interesting discussion. I am not familiar with the F4, or in fact any of Nikon's gear...so I guess I do not know what I am missing.

I do know this...I LOVE my EOS 3.

Fellow photographers. I have enjoyed this long discussion very much, and I'm glad to be a part of it. I've had my F4 for a while now , and so far have found quite a bit to like. I have owned mostly Nikon equipment for 20 years or so, and have used everything from an FM, EM, FE, FE2, and an original F. Plus I do some medium format.

This is my first "professional" 35mm (other than the original F), and I must say....I LOVE IT!

Commenting on the weight...well, I traded in a Mamiya RB67 with a big prism finder for this camera, so it feels like a light-weight in comparison. I agree that compared to my FE2 with its MD-12 motor it is heavier, but to me that is a GOOD thing. One of the banes of 35mm photography in general is that aggravating mirror flopping up and down, just when I am trying to get that shake-free shot. This F4 weighs about as much as my FE2/MD-12 and the sandbag I threw on top to dampen vibrations on those macro shots. Now I don't need the sandbag! Plus, I read that the mirror is counter-balanced by a tungsten counterweight. Even better! And now I find a nice little mirror lockup control. Sigh!

Anyway, on control placement...I find, having come from other Nikons that the control placement is where I would expect it to be. I love the fact that this baby has so many controls. I count 12 controls just for the right hand alone, and eight for the left. As an avowed gadget freak, there ain't enough controls, give me some more please. Seriously though, the controls all have a solid click feel to them, and seem like they will be difficult to dislodge from the last setting. I don't find it at all difficult to use the controls. I can easily set the motor drive with one hand, for instance. The exposure and focus lock controls all fall right under my fingers, as does the mirror lockup and depth-of-field preview button. I don't have particularly large hands, but all these controls seem to fit me well.

I loaded the film easily. In the older Nikons, I had to stick the little leader in the little slot and manually roll the film forward a few notches, then close the back, and watch the rewind knob while winding to make sure it moves. Then I would take the slack out of the roll with the rewind knob. But...on this F4, I stuck in the film, pulled the leader out and dropped it next to the red mark, closed the back, and held down the motor button. It stopped right on frame one, ready to shoot. Could that be any easier? If a person wants anything easier, they should switch to an Advantix drop in film type!

I am a computer consultant by trade, so I appreciate a good hunk of computer equipment better than most. This F4 is a cool package in that respect too. It is very computerized...19 automatic multiple bracketing exposures with the MF-23 back. Matrix, center-weighted, and spot metering with an easy switch movement (Not too easy so as to move by brushing it, I tried!), electronic shutter, manual metering, shutter and aperture priority modes, standard program mode, and high-speed program mode. It uses analog controls very effectively to manipulate its very digital internal systems. I appreciate that. Everything feels so smooooth.

The one thing that could be improved is the viewfinder. I suppose that it isn't quite as convenient as my FE2's, but it makes up for it by giving me a light switch that lights the meter up at night. I don't like looking from top to bottom of the finder for metering info. But, I guess since this thing has multiple prisms available, I could find one that suits me better.

I have a bunch of old favorite Nikkor AI lenses that are still very functional on this F4. I like that a lot. I have one older 50mm F1.8 that is so sharp that it scares me. I can still use it on this camera. I've never had Autofocus before, so...I can't be a good judge here, but, I do like the autofocus so far. It doesn't seem at all slow to me. I point it at something and it seems to focus very quickly, much faster than my forty-two year old eyes could do alone, anyway. I put it in continuous focus mode and it seems to find what I am looking for very quickly. I noticed that it prefers lines to focus against, and not wide blank areas, but, man...I can't focus well on wide blank areas either.

Maybe Canon is faster, but I don't like plastic. I like this big sturdy aluminum frame. In fact, here in the Great Smoky Mountians in Tennessee, we are not allowed to carry guns on long hikes. I once heard tale of a fellow who used his F4 to fend off a big black bear. I don't know if I believe that tall tale, but...other than a big rock, I can't think of a better "legal" defensive weapon against bears, elves, pigmies, trolls, or other creatures of the night mountain air here in the Smokies.

So if you are ever in Cades Cove in the Smokies, and see a funny computer nerd guy with an F4, being chased by a bear...it'll probably be me, and I'll most likely have some great shots to show for my efforts too! It actually happened once, but that was with an FE, and is another story. Would you like to see some of the pictures?

Hey, if you like Canon, go buy one; me...I'm a Nikon guy, and my F4 is, as one of the local bears might say, juuuust right!

I started out with an 8008 in -91, but when I got my first F4e the year after, the 8008 was used a lot less until it finally just collected dust in the camera-bag. Today I have two F4e's wich I love, it's a real workhorse. If the 8008 is so great, how come it doesn't take the newer AF-I / AF-S lenses despite the fact that it was introduced almost five years after the F4. Having said that, I wouldn't mind an F5, but at the time the F4 is more than enough.

/Magnus

Hi! I'm a 21 year old student (biology & ethnology), I've started serious photography with an Olympus IS-3000 (splendid point & shoot !! more than 5000 pics. in 10 years -only once in check), than changed to EOS, purchasing an A2e (5) and an Elan II (50), which did a preaty good job at the beginning. I always had the feeling to care 'electronic-stuffed-toys' around, what I wanted was something rugged; I missed that 'metall-feeling'. What I missed too was a fully manual backup body. When I then went to Costa-Rica's rainforest (I've been in Peru's rainforest too & some 20 more countries whith my Olympus...), I hoped already on the flight, that my EOS-system will survive the job... the first 2 weeks, I must say that the cameras withstood even photographing in the tropical rain!!! But suddenly the lens-release button of my Elan II brocke off. I can tell you it's realy clumsy to change lenses like this; ( I must admit I did some press photography with it before -frequent lens changing included...). Quiet upset I had to find my A2e's integrated-flash not wanting to pop out anymore. Godsake I had some extra 540EZ & 380 EX ... The pictures quality was very very good ( I only use Fuji & Ilford) Home, I traded-in the poor rest of my EOS equipment and bought an Leica R7 & R5 (used!!!) and some sumilux prime lenses, finaly something rugged in hands... I'm very satisfied whith my Leicas, but something missed. So 2 days ago I bought an F4s (mint condition - <100 rolls-/ for ~ 866 $ !!) . I LOVE IT!!!!!!! I always hated these programs and sub-programs of the EOS' . If you dont carry the user manual(or at least a list) around, you'll never know which Custom-Function changes what!!! The F4 gives me everything I need: I always know what kind of settings I've chosen, I've even learnd the first evening to change settings whith closed eyes; it's SO SIMPLE!!!!! To mention the size & weight: it has exactly the same size as my R7 with attached drive and it's even lighter!!! It gives you such a superb feeling holding this body in hands; you'll never want to leave it again. When i press the shutter, it's like music! I have a Tamron 20-40 (f 2,7-3,5) zoom and I must admit, I thought AF was slower!!! Only thing I'm missing are those USM-Lenses (motor in the lens - an extra that costs you alot at Nikon), and that little on-screen light (red) that indicates when you've focused right (in manual mode).

At least let me say that I would love it, if Nikon launched a new F4 (kind of F4n) , incorporating the F5 (also one of those Canon-like interfaces...) AF-chip , the color-3D-matrix , and a metall view-finder!!! If you think the same please E-mail me your name, I'm making a list I want to send to Nikon; maybe the'll heare us!

Take your F4', go out, and shoot!!! this camera needs taff situations!!!

alex from Europe -anotherone of those F4s addicted-

PS. someone selling a MF-23 data back??? please mail!

Canon EOS is a superb system, if you don't leave your hometown and your expeditions go no further than your backyard. Since you want to try yourself in Travel-Photography, F NIKONs are the cameras of your choice! The F4s is the BEST camera (in userfriendly terms) Nikon ever produced. (I know what I'm talking about: I've used both systems... Canon is for people who like very feature-stuffed toys)

Good light! And many picture-valueing moments with your F4.

PS. the F4s is not heavy at all, I remember carrying 13-15 kg of EOS-system around...

-az-

Hi, I'am an advanced amateur photographer (for 12 yrs). I' ve been using two Nikon F4s bodies along with 6 different Nikkors ranging from 20mm to 500mm for 3 years.To make a summary: it colud be a perfect camera if it had F5's focussing system.I really do agree with the ideas of Alexander chr. Zaforek on this matter. But if you use it maual focus only, it is still the greatest of all 35mm SLR's. I usually shoot on the Mediterranean Coast in summer time where the relative humidity exceeds 90 percent. While shooting inside these conditions my cameras viewfinder(pentaprism)'s electronics made stupid things like shoving lots of numreals and/or incorrect data. I' ve fixed this problem by cleaning the viewfinder to camera electronic contacts (both the viewfinder's and the camera's) with a cotton tipped ear cleaning stick. Again the battery holder to camera electronic contacts were oxidized and I could solve the problem by scrubbing it with a N0:0 scrubber. But I have to remind that the working conditions were not favorouble so generally F4s's resistance to dampness is o.k. Resistance to shock is great for this camera. I carry it in my Lowepro MiniTrekker and usually climb on rocks, jump, run, and for one time dropped it to the rocks from 65cm height. F4s survived all these conditions. F4s's motordrive is very dependable. Itshoot up to 5.7 fps with MB-21 grip (6AA battery holding grip). For cold weather shooters winding the film wery slowly is a very important rule. Otherwise you can crack or cause unwanted blue spots or coloring on film. For these kinds of conditions you can use 1fps (silent wind)feature of this camera, and you can manually rewind the film at the speed you want. Ergonomics of the camera is really great. It handles like a piece of your hand (don't forget that the F4s design belongs to a Porsche designer, Guigiaro). I really like the camera has no LCD' s on its body (Except the viewfinder) and its traditional look. I can write a book on this camera but the space is limited, so I highly recommend this camera but likes and dislikes differs from person to person and nobody can discuss it. Baybars from Turkey.

I own both an F5 and F4s and I have to admit I prefer the F4s in almost all ways. I don't have to hunt for exposure compensation or check shutter speed changes and everything is in the 'right place'. So much for ergonomics...

Yes it's big and heavy, but that's one of the reasons it's such a great camera!

I have used everything from canon to Nikon, to Minolta and etc, and I have to say that from the first time I picked up the F4s, I knew this was going to be the last camera I would ever buy. I passed on the F5 based sheerly on the feel and control layouts of the 4. I for one am sick of multi-functional buttons that have to be entered in combo to do differant tast, and for one am glad to have an old-fashioned operating camera. As a photojournalist, the relaibility and durability of the camera comes first. And this monster has that. Yes the Canon is quicker and that is good for the wild life and sports guys, but I am hard and I a,m just too tired of killing EOS 1's left and right.

Just reciently I purchased a nice F4s serial no 2538XXX, and Have put 40 films through it. In my opinion,, it is really easy to hold and use everything is in just the right place. It is also suficiently heavy enough to alow me to hand hold it near 1/10 sec, on a 70mm lens, and still be adequatly sharp. The only thing I have against it is thet bloody Jessops supplied it with the crappy MF22 databack, which, apart from being unusable, I feel is point less - I do not want the date printed on the picture. So I'm saving up for the MF23.

I am not sure that Phil is totally fair when comparing the F4 to others. Yes it is heavy and large, however, I am a fairly tall man who weighs about 250 pounds. I like the larger camera and it seems to fit my hands better. If I was short and weighed 180 pounds, I can see where the F4 could be a real drag. As far as F4 versus F5, I will go with my F5. I loved the F4 but the F100 and F5 have made my F4 an expensive paperweight. I am ready to sell the F4 but it is such a wonderful camera that selling it is difficult! Yes the F4 is heavy but if you have lots of Nikon MF lens, the F4 with its matrix metering using manual lens is a dream!

I have read the preceding comments with interest and I would like to add mine. I have been a devoted Olympus OM1md amateur user since 1978. The camera was a wedding present from my wife and we bought it for the same reasons that I have just invested in an excellent used F4s. These are consistent solid mechanical quality, supported by a dealer network of enthusiasts, a vendor who is in this business for the long haul and the access to a miriad of clubs and support networks. I have been used to OM fast lenses for landscapes and portraits and to me I was seriously considering Leica M6. Cost is not really an issue, but since I have started to take ballet shots in available light, AF became important. I looked at an new EOS3/30, a Nikon F100/80 and a Contax RTSIII. All have great lenses, some more expensive, with the EF EOS lenses perhaps with more choice. But once I got out and started talking to USERS, Nikon was the real choice if it was a private sale not funded by a newspaper etc. The consensus was that it does not matter if the EOS fails a lot because work with get it fixed or buy another. In that professional environment things like support and durability do not matter so much. If I am going to carry all the risk and expense, then perhaps an F5? Further enquiries resulted in information that said that an F5 is too electronic and if something fries like in an EOS, then is all over red rover. Also I needed to be able to buy secondhand fast lenses...all F2/2.8 or better, and the Nikon market is huge, plus they all work with matrix metering on the F4. The moment I took delivery of my F4, I knew that this was the platform to invest in for the next few years. I expect that I might buy a Leica when I can afford the fast lenses, but so far I am delighted with my "brick" and see it as a logical move from the OM system. The first dozen rolls of slide film have produced beautiful clarity rivalling the results from the OM and every time I get some back from processing I am even more pleased. The batteries are the original ones supplied with the camera from the dealer and they are still going strong (40 rolls). The 100% viewfinder is great, it's a bit noisy but that lets me hear that everyting is working. The AF is plenty fast enough for me. I am bracketing 2/3 + & -, I have corrected the viewfinder dioptre, I can use the spot meter for challenging portraits, The 20/2.8M is just right for my landscapes, and the focus tracking has allowed me to concentrate on composition much more for my ballet pictures. In short, I was very apprehensive at first, but not now...it is a great milestone camera and my choise has been vindicated already. Now has someone out there got a nice 85/1.4 for sale?

Well that's great a camera review from a Canon user on a Nikon Camera. Good one Photo.net.

I have had my F4 only a few months now buying a mint second hand one. Why the hell I didn't do it ages ago I'll never know. Everything is where it should be and it's really easy to see what your doing in the viewfinder. I love it.

By the way as I have no manual is it true it doesn't use battery power in B & T settings. This would be cool as I was thinking if getting a FM2 for star trails.

I shoot left handed, having a disability that prevents me from using my right hand fully. I use both the F4 and N90s with lenses as large as the 300f4. I love the heft and feel of the F4 and it balances perfectly in my hand. I have figured out ways to use most of the controls using my left hand alone while holding the camera. Obviously I have to work with limitations but the F4 has never given me any trouble either in handling or mechanically.I have to admit until recently I used the N90s as my primary camera (faster autofocus, ability to use slow flash sync). When I had some electronic difficulty with the N90s(the aperture ring and LCD Aperture readings weren't matching up) it was great to have the F4 to pick up the slack - so much so that I think I'll be using it more often.

I recently upgraded to a pristine F4s with 24/2.8, 85/1.8 and 80-200/2.8 from a really nice OM1n system that I owned from new.I used to do landscapes and available light portraits but now I am doing ballet and dance so I struggled with the AF issue. I could have gone EOS but I am getting beautiful portraits and landscapes with the F4 and the servo AF and Ph program is great for dance. Just hit the button and aim it like a machine gun. Hell, 6fps is enough! There is a lot of beautiful glass out there and its all compatible. Yes its heavy, especially with the 80-200, but the results are there. This has to be the best combo, even for portraits. I thought about an F5 or an F100, but the F4 is easier to program change on the fly. I hope to keep it forever. If I want to get really picky for portraits, I'll go 6x7 anyway.

After having read this lengthy and very informative review of one of the coolest cameras Nikon ever made, I am ready to add a few lines.

I have been a Nikonian for many years, and have worked my way through the entire line, all the way from an original Nikon F up to my new N80. I have used an F4s for some time now as my "quality image" camera. I carry the N80, with its built-in flash, and whiz bang features, everywhere I go. Sunsets and snapshots fall prey to my N80 with alarming frequency. The F4s is in my big LowePro AW Trekker backpack along with the big glass, for when its time to get serious about the images. Have you ever tried to put a small bodied camera behind a 500mm lens? I suppose you can, but it just doesn't feel right. Or, maybe you've put a big flash unit on top of one of the smaller cameras. They work fine, but don't feel balanced (top heavy). Neither of these conditions are a problem with my F4s. The weight makes the camera work very well with BIG lenses and BIG flash units.

Also, when I am doing close-up work with my Micro Nikkor lens, I find that the F4 is very superior. The extra weight and balanced shutter allows me to shoot fairly slow shutter speeds when I'm deep in the dark woods of the Great Smoky Mountains here in Tennessee. I have hand-held this camera successfully on a regular basis down to 1/8sec (with bracing) and still have sharp images. The body weight and tungsten mirror counterbalance makes the shutter flap unnoticable. I love the mirror-lockup, eyepiece blind, and shutter balancer for when I am really critical about the image.

I have both old and new Nikkor lenses. My F4s handles them all. The AF is slower on my F4s than on the N80, but not that much slower. I find that the F4 tends to search for the focus much more in low light than the N80, but not unacceptably so. The autofocus works nearly as well as newer cameras in bright light. When you look at the features that an F4s gives you, you will find that it is a well balanced camera for all types of photography.

Here are my favorite features:

• Heavy body weight to keep down vibrations and balance out lenses and attachments.
• Analog controls that become second nature. You can adjust this camera without ever taking your eye away from the eyepiece.
• Uses older MF lenses along with new AF lenses. It can use the latest lenses as well as the oldest lenses and still use Matrix Metering. Not many cameras can boast that.
• It has a real mirror lockup and eyepiece blind. This is really critical on waterfall shots, where my exposures may exceed several seconds. I meter the subject, close the eyepiece shutter to block out stray light, flip the mirror lockup lever, then fire the shutter. Excellent SHARP images.
• Time exposures without battery drain. Try shooting a newer camera on a star trail shot that exceeds several hours. You can forget it. The batteries will be drained on most new cameras in about three to five hours.
• I can manually rewind film at will. People are always marveling at how you can program the new cameras to leave a bit of leader exposed on rewind. Well, with my F4s, I just push the manual rewind button, and crank the rewind lever while watching the frame counter run in reverse. When it gets to less than one, I pop open the back, only to find a bit of leader sticking out. Hoo-hah!
• Double-Exposures are fast and easy with the double-exposure lever.
• Bracketing is very easy with the F4s. There is an exposure compensation knob right on top of the camera. I can set it up or down several stops in 1/3 stop increments. If I am really silly about bracketing, I can put on my MF-23 databack, and set it up for up to 19 automatically bracketed exposures.
• With my MF-23 back, I can write exposure/date information between the frames of the film. This is much less intrusive than right in the frame of the images as with most other cameras.
• If you just gotta, you can strip the F4s down into an F4, by removing the MB-21 battery pack and substituting and MB-20. The camera is about 40% smaller and lighter that way. It isn't much heavier than an N90s in that mode.
• And finally, The F4s is MUCH sexier looking than ANY other camera Nikon has ever made. It is like a beautiful woman, all curvy and supple. Most people who don't know that the F4s stopped production a few years back think my camera is a BRAND NEW one. It still looks new. Best design ever!

In my humble opinion the F4s is the ultimate camera for the end of the film era. I just can't bring myself to spend $2000.00 for an F5, and the F100 has no mirror lockup. You can buy a good used F4s for about $800.00 on eBay these days. I just bought another F4s (1994 model for about $900.00). I have a fully professional camera, with all the needed features for superior photography. Don't let 'em fool ya! The F4s is still very viable and desirable.

Check out my Nikon site: www.planetnikon.com, and my family photography site at: www.darrellsimages.com. And, if you're into the coolest CAR on the road (or off) check out my Jeep® Resource Center at: www.gp4wd.com Thanks!

I read all those interesting comments following the "interesting review" of the F4. It just takes me back 10-12 years when the big fight was going on whether Nikon or Canon was the correct gear (since Canon already had an Af camera in the market and Nikon just released theirs).

I don't pretend to be proficient enough to counter any of the reviewers comments but I can only tell you why I chose the F4s.

1. Its a Nikon therefore reliability is almost always guaranteed (there might be some duds if you are unlucky, but this can happen with any major brand).

2. All controls are set separately, and this is very useful for anyone used to manual cameras. I don suggest that buttons and dials cannot be set quickly, but then again why do most people prefer old fashion "filofaxes" to computer data agendas and the such.

3. You can set almost everything without removing your eye from the eyepiece.

4. exposure lock and AF lock can be set with one finger.

5. AF is quick enough (although not the best) for almost nay situation.

6. It is very well balanced camera and I think that the extra weight makes it more stable in low shutter speed situations.

7. Vertical shooting is "a piece of cake" with the extra button on the battery pack.

8. The viewfinder has 100% coverage.

9. Matrix metering (although not 3D) is perfect.

10. I like the styling very much.

By the way, I've had mine since 1989 or 1990 and have gone through over 600-700 rolls of film in that time (plus another 2-300 with a Nikon F3, Pentax Z1 and various other cameras) with no problems or malfunctions encountered so far.

Dimitri G. Varias

I love my F4s. I don't care about the weight, in fact it really doesn't bother me at all. Even if it did, I wouldn't trade it for a lighter model if it meant having to use LCD menus and thumb wheels of all the godforsaken things!

I guess that my tolerance for its weight comes from lugging around 30lbs of textbooks for years prior to picking up photography (and we were not allowed to use bookbags, we had to carry them in our arms), and then after that often carrying around my laptop and accessories which weighed about 17lbs together. Compared to all that, the F4 even with a couple lenses is fairly light. To me, heavy is when I packed my Nikon F4s + 50mm 1.4, Pentax K1000 and 4 lenses, 10 filters, my digital camera, my cardreader, and 2 thick photography books all into my Domke F2 bag. I recently took a 2 mile hike on the railroad tracks with my father, he with his FG and I with my F4s (he was very "impressed" by the F4s' weight). The weight did not bother me at all, and I carried it around my neck. More importantly, I managed to trip myself twice while not paying attention, and the F4s survived the drop onto the gravel with only another ding on its battery pack, while I, on the other hand, got large and painful lumpy bruises (yay hematomas!).

My point is: if you like the idea of using real dials and switches and things, don't worry so much about the weight... don't let it scare you off. Give the F4s a chance, it is a wonderful camera, durable if you're a klutz like me, and not really all that heavy considering.

Here's my two cents worth. I agree with Darrell Young and most of the positive comments on the F4s. I find the F4s to be the pinnacle of Nikon 35mm SLR film camera development. Rugged, beautiful design, reliable, compatible with almost every Nikkor lens ever made. Wanna put some zest into the AF on your F4? I've got the answer. Just attach an AF-I or AF-S lens. Sweet AF! Nikon please, please, please give us conventional knobs and dials on your new breed of SLR's! Not those confusing LCD panels and pushbuttons. My idea of the perfect design for the new Nikon F6? Start with an F4s body. Then stick the light meter and AF module from the F5 inside it! Then stick an F6 label on the outside, done. No need for years of R&D. That's all you have to do Nikon...

Having used Rollei and Canon equipment for the past 40 years, I decided to change over to Nikon a few years ago when I picked up a new F4S and I immediately fell in love. The feel of this well built tank of a camera encourages you to run out every day and find pictures to shoot just for the enjoyment of handling it. I have since added many lenses etc. to my kit and just recently added a new N80 body. This is another story all by itself. What a neat little lightweight. I judge my equipment by how secure I am that it will not break when I am in the wilderness of Glacier Park or the back country of the Sierras.

I own three F4's, Ihave an F4, F4S AND F4E I also own two EOS 1v's I believe the answer to all the comments on this page is simple a)do you like the camera you have and b) are you pleased with its results.Thats it! i like my EOS'S and my F4'S not one more than the other and both for different reasons.I photograph stainglass windows and gargoyles, really high up and often from cranes or having to absail up the side of cathedrals, my f4 is the only camera for this job, I know i wont get to where i want to be only to find that it doesnt work,I also shoot wild animals such as deer, birds of prey, my EOS is the only camera for this job as i dont want to miss the shot with slow focusing, and yet I know I could do both jobs with any of these two cameras and both cameras would give me excellant results.At the end of the day the shots will only be as good as the person pressing the button.

Talk about heavy, has anyone owned a Contax AX camera? The Nikon F4 feels light compared to that photographic tool. Yes, the F4 is not a perfect SLR camera, but what camera is (if you can design one you should, you'll be very rich!)? It all comes down to what you feel comfortable with and which body will drive you to pick it up off the shelf, dust it off and use it! In this case the F4 is my driving force. I am not a professional photographer, don't claim to be, but like to think of myself as an advanced amatuer. What I lack in skills and exposure experience to make me a so called pro, I make up for it with my experience and knowledge with various 35mm SLR cameras, and in that arena I have tons of experience. Let me explain. I have owned many cameras throughout the years, such as, the Nikon FA, EL2, FM2N, F3T, N6006, N8008s, N70, N80, N90s, F100 and the Contax AX, RTS, 167MT, S2 and the new Aria. I have some experience with all these cameras and my choice hands down is....you guessed it, the F4. Basically, I like to use a camera without having to take along a thick manual or a user's guide just to figure out how to operate it. You don't need a manual with the F4, it is laid out so well you can figure it out with one glance. Yes, the Auto Focus on the F4 is not as fast as the latest, greatest AF cameras on the market. Does anyone really know how fast is fast enough in every situation? The 5.7 fps is more than fast enough for 95% of all the photographers out there unless you're working for NASA getting paid to film a space shuttle launch. Get real! My advice to those looking to purchase a sexy looking, heavy duty, high quality AF camera that can go anywhere under any conditions and do any job....F4 is it!

Jake Haff

A few months ago I purchased a Nikon F4s. What a great camera! I guess what Phil finds annoying I find a joy. I had a Canon Elan IIE years ago (before I switched to medium format) and never felt very comfortable with it. All through school I used their A2E for assignments and again, never felt comfortable with it. I liked the autofocus and autoexposure but I didn't like the electronic interface. I was much more comfortable with the medium format cameras and for a while shot very little 35mm preferring to use the Bronica ETRSi I owned at the time.

In this last year I had the yearning to switch back to 35mm for a few projects I wanted to pursue and because it worked better with my vision of what I wanted (I often shot Ilford Delta 3200 in my 645 camera to get the grainy effect I wanted in 16x20 prints....so why should I even used a medium format camera in the first place) I also shoot better handheld. I like to move about my subject so the easier to hold and faster to use 35mm format looked great. After researching all the camera choices I had I found a great article on the Nikon F4 on the nikonians website. Wow...this looks like the perfect camera for me. I searched Ebay and found on in perfect condition and got it.

I love this camera. No silly LCD display on the top of the camera, no custom function for locking the mirror up or for multi exposures. There is a seperate button or switch for every function the camera has, its great. Can't check the ISO setting....who cares, set it yourself on the ISO dial. It would take the same amount of time as checking it on another camera. Need longer shutter speeds, well I have the MF-23 back so thats no problem, same with exposure bracketing. The control layout is great in my oppinion. I love having a traditional shutter speed dial and using the aperture ring on the lens. I know my film will never get stuck in the camera because of dead batteries because I can manually rewind it. The F4 has every feature I have always wanted in a camera layed out in a superb fashion.

I looked at the F100, the EOS 3/1N/1V, and the Maxxum 7 but the F4s was just what I wanted and chose it over all the others. I have since added a Nikon N80 for times when I do want to travel light. Its nice to have a small, light camera with a built in flash but I don't care much for the control layout compared to my F4 (Yeah, I could have gotten and FM2n or FM3A but I really wanted a built in flash for those times when you want to take the camera to the grandparents for the holidays, etc.)

I think all these reviews show what a strong camera the F4s is. As usual, you can't please everyone and the F4 deffinetly was not made for Phil. I can understand that, some people prefer the more electronic interface with dials, wheels, LCD's and custom function menus. I like simple, well layed out, and logical controls that each have there own function that you don't need a manual to figure out.

mmmmmm, F4e

In the early 90's I owned two F4s, one F90, an FE2+MD4 and an FE+MD4. Before that I had also a F3+MD4.

During my ownership of the F4s bodies I was shooting fashion full time for two agencies and using the 80-200 2.8 and 300 2.8 almost exclusively.

A Canon representative approached me with a fancy kit of Canon's high end stuff to try, EOS1, 70-200 2.8, 28-70 2.8, 300 2.8, tilt+shift and a really wide angle. He left the kit with me for a week, I was quite excited because I had previously been a Canon shooter F1n, T90, A1, but when the time came to upgrade I opted for the legendary STRENGTH of Nikon Equipment.

I used the Canon stuff in and out of studio for a few days but rapidly became disgusted with the handling of the EOS1 and its damn manual I had to carry with me because of all the unlabled "CUSTOM FUNCTIONS" BAH!

Since then I had a nasty Divorce and lost all my equipment and I have been buying Nikon again! In fact just got an F4s the other day and I am in love all over again. Not an LCD in sight, WOO HOO. Within 5 minutes it felt as though I had never put this camera down, and I was shooting intuitively again like with my F3.

I will be buying key parts for this camera such as a couple of shutters, spare finder, motors, gear train, knobs/switches and some cosmetic pieces, in an attempt to keep this camera working for as long as possible.

In my humble opinion the F4 is the best damn all around camera ever made by Nikon or anyone for that matter.

I read the very comprehensive postings with great interest. It only reinforces my opinion that the Nikon F4 is the finest camera that I have ever owned. Having owned and used many Nikons over the last 30 years or so, the things that impress me the most about the F4s are: 1 - complete dependability 2 - availablity of service anywhere on earth 3 - availability of inexpensive batteries anywhere on earth 4 - availability of the most complete system of lenses, and accessories bar none. When you just gotta get the shot, why trust anything else? Dennis Elliott

I recently traded my trusted Nikon FM2 plus a few lenses for a clean, used F4. Bought a 28-105mm zoom for it for budget reasons, and took it along on a 3-week journey to Vietnam without much testing beforehand (not recommended!). What impressed me the most about the F4 beside its looks is its solidity. Some people complain about its size and weight but for me it's a big plus. Maybe it's just a psychological thing but I immediately felt confident with the F4, precisely because of its bulky size and weight, like it's telling me "Go ahead and abuse me a little, I can take it!"... which I did! What about the results? For my first time ever, I photographed mostly on Automatic(aperture-priority) mode , not knowing what to expect and totally relying on the F4's Matrix metering. The results were beyond my expectations. I could not have done better with my manual FM2, and with half of the work! My biggest regret was not shooting more transparencies with the F4, my main camera being a medium-format on that particular trip. The F4 is a traveler's dream. Get a nice used one and have fun with it.

This is a great camera from a lens compatibility standpoint. I recently bought a very clean F4s which is just a joy to shoot. I did buy a 50mm f1.8 AF Nikkor just to try the AF capability (which ain't bad), but the main body of work will be shot with a set of Vivitar Series 1 zooms in AI-mount; a 35-85 f2.8 and flat field zoom 90-180 f4.5, and a fast Vivitar 24mm f2 manual focus lens (with CRC- just like the Nikon). The F4 is the ONLY Nikon autofocus camera that allows a non-cpu lens to be used and will allow for all three metering patterns to be used (spot, matrix, center-weighted). The ability to use these older lenses on such a modern body is just fantastic! 2/25/02 update- Now, having bought the smaller MB20 battery pack as well as 24, 85 and 80-200 AF lenses I have gone completely AF. The F4's ability to focus the lenses plus the added program modes afforded by the AF-lenses makes not using them a pain when it comes to travel photography. Just set everything to "Program High" with matrix metering and no worries with the F4- it's a GREAT system. Another plus is the traditional dials make it easy to see how all is set up without having to turn the camera on. NO OPTIONAL FUNCTIONS TO HAVE TO REMEMBER OR THINK ABOUT!

I have read all the responses in this forum and feel obliged to give a brief comment. The arguement of Canon versus Nikon will always be there (as far as Japanese cameras are concerned). I've made good (sometimes great) photographs with Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Minolta, Fujica, Leica, and even Miranda camera equipment. As far as "modern" 35mm cameras go, the Nikon F4 is probably the nicest I have used. It's big & heavy, and I can use an old (mid 60's) 35mm f1.4 MF lens in matrix metering mode with superb results.

The Canon EOS cameras (the newer ones) are slightly faster to autofocus in lower light (so what). For those folks with a taste & yearning for an autofocus 35mm camera with controls where they should be, the Nikon F4 is perfect.

You immediatley enjoy it's logical placement of controls, it's solidity, and it's ability to utilize lenses made from 1959 to the present day. My one gripe: inability to use rear curtain sync with an SB-28 flash. Oh well. It's an imperfect world.

Hope to see this discussion grow for another 10 years.....

Well, I’ve never been to the Arctic or in a steaming jungle, but as an advanced amateur I’ve been using Nikon cameras for almost twenty years. Starting as an absolute beginner with the FG, I soon graduated to the FE2 and FM2, which thanks to Nikon have found a worthy successor in the FM3A. Then I bought a F3 because I frequently use the waistlever finder for street photography. My F4s is only twelve years old, but I can say that it’s a reliable camera. The most important features are the viewfinder and the traditional design. It’s easy to switch from the MF bodies to the F4, and lately I’ve been using autofocus more frequently. My wide angle lenses are all MF, the telephoto lenses (85mm, Micro 105mm, 180mm and 300 mm) are AF. No trouble in using them in either focussing mode. The matrix metering with AIS lenses is a bonus, too. But most of the time I switch to centre-weighted metering, because then I know how to compensate by experience.

Still, I’ve been thinking of buying an F100, if only because of the VR 80-400 zoom lens.

This discussion reminds me of the discussions between Windows and Mac users. I wouldn’t trade in my G3 Mac, nor would I give up my F4. The best camera is the one you’re happy with and which is so easy to handle that you can concentrate on the picture. The F4 comes pretty close to this ideal.

After using the F4s for about two years now. I have come to the conclusion that it is the most versatile and plain old tough system ever created. After seeing F100, and Eos 1v screens fog up in storms, or clogged with sand and other misfortunes, i believe more and more that the F4 was the only proffessional grade system ever created. For some this might be hard to understand, but look at it like a AK-47 gun, you can bury it under sand, stick in mud, underwater, run over it with an F-150, pick it up and keep on shooting. Surely some people view it's controls as an "ergonomic nightmare", but after only 5 minutes playing with it, you can master them. You can change every control on the camera, everything without taking your eye off the diopter. You get tough knobs instead of tiny buttons, and almost every control has a lock, for those unfortunate mistakes. It's AF although not the fastest is still pretty fast and works for most of us out there. For astrophotography their's simply nothing better. Another advantage compared to other brands is that it's a nikon, you can use an array of lenses dating from the 70's to 2002, plus 98% of the gadgets. Sure it's heavy, weighing over 3 lbs, but for a reason, try using a light camera with a very heavy lense, it simply won't work, and it doesn't feel right, but weight is something to get use to. If your in the market for a tough, and i mean tough camera, don't hesitate to check it out, i promise in no way will it leave you dissatisfied. In my own personal experience my F4 has practically been underwater. While covering a rare meterological phenomenon (one very mean storm, winds up to 70mph) on a small island in the south Meditteranean, i was shooting close to shore while i dropped my F4 and it was then covered by incoming water, and dragged about 3 feet away. After cleaning it myself(removing sand, and mud, it was ready to go in a matter of 20 minutes). Canon, beat that!

I just bought a used F4s from Houston Camera Exchange about two weeks ago, and I just had my first opportunity to really put it to the test last night. I was shooting a wedding and I used the F4s and my N90s as my primary bodies for photojournalism related work. I loved the way the F4s feels in my hands, especially compared to the N90s. It's a solid, well-built tool and after using it I could easily see why so many pros over the years have used (and loved) the F4s. I'm still a big fan of t