Where to Buy a Camera

There is a pretty good and active auction in used camera equipment on the auction web (http://www.ebay.com/aw/list.html.) I bought a nice simple autofocus point and shoot camera for my son ($11 + shipping).

Unless the laws have recently been changed, you do not want to use a debit card when you place an order with any mail order company. Credit cards are safer because the laws limit your liability should the card numbers get stolen or used for a purpose that you have not authorized. A thief with your debit card numbers can drain your account and you have no protection. No wonder banks promote their use!

Credit card companies generally stand behind the consumer in rational, well documented disputes. I've had uniform support from American Express, Visa, Master Card, and Discover in disputes - even over things like delayed charges for long distance calls to Mexico and the like on hotel phone bills.

Be careful with COD too. A dishonest merchant can ship a partial order with COD charges for the full order. When you complain, they will explain to you that they are going to send you the backordered stuff later with no additional shipping charges. If you don't mind them having your cash while you wait indefinitely for the backordered items, then it doesn't matter.

Don't buy on price alone. Check to see what the restocking charges are. Check to see what the shipping charges are. To ship a 35mm SLR body with normal lens, insured for $1000 by UPS ground service, costs less than $10 between any two points in the 48 contiguous United States. It often costs less than $5. If the company charges $29.95 for shipping and handling, they are using the shipping department as a significant profit center. Restocking fees are also pretty silly, especially when they are applied to things that the company shipped to you in error. Good companies with a focus on customer service do not need restocking fees to make a profit.

Watch for bait and switch and also watch out for sales personnel who try to sell you filters, extended warranties, and the like. Don't buy anything that you hadn't intended to buy when you called them. If you think you should change your buying plans, hang up and give yourself time to decide what you really want to do. Formally ask if the product has a US warranty from the manufacturer. If you just ask about a US warranty, they will say yes, even if the warranty is provided by some unknown repair service in New Jersey or by the store itself. With Canon gear, this isn't an issue because Canon USA will honor the warranty on any Canon stuff, grey market included, as long as you have a sales slip from an authorized Canon dealer that shows the date of purchase. Other companies are not so generous, and getting service on grey market gear can be a pain.

The sales person is not your friend. His or her goal, stated in the simplest of terms, is to get you to spend your money. Do not buy things based on your "friendship" with the sales person.

Until you've established a good working relationship with one or two companies, it is useful to follow the Check Rated rules in the back of Popular Photography. These rules don't eliminate the weasels. There are a lot of weasels that advertise in Pop Photo. The rules basically just give you a little more leverage in a dispute because you can bring Pop Photo in on the complaint and this may help you get satisfaction in difficult cases. A lot of the companies appear to operate on the principle that they will do whatever they can get away with. Since many consumers are too tired to fight, or are unsure of how to fight, the bad guys win often enough to allow them to continue to operate as bad guys.

Even good companies can change over time. Executive Photo used to be a very honest business, and you could count on them. They would always do exactly what they said they would do. In recent years they became one of the businesses that were routinely mentioned by people with complaints, and in 1996 it appears that they went out of business.

On small items - entry level bodies, modestly priced lenses, point and shoot cameras, and the like - you may be better off just paying what it costs to buy the equipment from a local merchant. If you're going to save less than $100, why not provide support for the folks who will be available to answer your questions and help you make the best possible purchase decision?

If you want higher level gear, the potential for savings are greater - and, more importantly, because of mail order operations, many local camera stores can't afford to keep stocks of high end equipment around. Fewer than half of the lenses and none of the camera bodies that I currently own are stocked by any of the camera stores where I live (Dayton, OH).

Good luck with your equipment purchase. Be sure to save enough money out for a tripod, ball head, lupe, light box, and FILM!

On the West Coast, one of the best places to get an honest deal is at Simon's Camera, 1316 North Western Ave. LA 90027, phone 213-463-8585 or fax 213-463-8691. I know I got the best deal in the US on a new Contax G2, and their prices across the board in other brands are easily the best in Los Angeles. Plus it's a small family business, here since the early 80s, and they are charmingly uninterested in having websites and doing the whole computer thing. Simon and his son Paul run the place, and while they certainly do mail order, they won't take credit cards or out of town checks. On he other hand, they know their cameras, stock or get anything you want, and are good folks.

I thought I would record a few specific anecdotes about experience with B&H.

Some good things:

Often the price that they quote on the phone is lower than the advertised price, especially on EOS gear.

If you order the rush service (overnight or 2nd day air) they expedite your order and do a better job of checking on backorder status.

Each of the bodies I've purchased from them has come with a free Domke pro level strap, in addition to whatever strap was provided by the manufacturer.

Whenever I've returned something, they've credited my card within two weeks of their receipt of the item. I send things back registered mail with return receipt, or by UPS Groundtrac service (depending on size).

Mr. Posner is always ready and willing to help out if complications arise. He is genuinely concerned about customer satisfaction.

B&H has one of the best stocked wharehouses in the business. Chances are they will have what you want when you call.

Some bad things:

I bought a camera and lens kit from Morris once and he quoted me a price that was $65 lower than the price in the ad, and he included a "free" extended warranty from Canon. Later I found out that the real price was $100 dollars less than the price in the ad, and that Morris had conned me into buying a $35 extended warrantly.

I bought a lens from Morris once and he offered me an extended warranty on it. The extended warranty was not from Canon, but was "from B&H" according to Morris. When the warranty came, it was really from some outfit in New Jersey that I had never heard of. On the bright side, I was able to return it with no hassle and no restocking fee.

The verification department can be a pain in the neck. I got entered into their system as two different customers, and this caused all kinds of problems in getting shipments released until Mr. Posner was able to get to the bottom of it and straighten things out.

On several occasions they have told me on the phone that small, strange items were in stock, and then when the shipment arrived they were back ordered. The only time you get good information on back order status on the day that you order is if you have asked for rush service.

If you just order ground service, they sit on your order for a day before sending it out. They claim that this isn't a formal policy, but it might as well be. If you don't pay for the rush service, your shipment is not likely to go out until the day after you've ordered it.

Once they shipped me the wrong thing by overnight FED EX. It took 20 minutes of arguing and two phone calls to get them to reship immediately by overnight without making me place a second order for what my card had already been billed for. On the bright side, they did eventually do the right thing.

In summary:

B&H is a good supplier. But they are human. Don't expect to have everything to go perfectly. Sometimes you have to be patient.

When I first started calling them, I thought that if I developed a relationship with one salesperson, that that salesperson would "take care of me." I was wrong. I have used at least 5 different sales people . Each has had good points and bad points. They can't "take care of you" because B&H is so large that the whole place is compartmentalized. You need a friend in verification, and a friend in shipping more than you need a friend in sales. The guy who runs interference the best is Henry Posner, but he can be overwhelmed sometimes too. B&H does an incredible volume of business, and the percentage of happy customers is pretty high, but even a small percentage of disgruntled customers can take a lot of time for the folks who try to trouble shoot.

One thing I've learned is that you should not expect them to break their own rules very often. A business as large as theirs has to be rule based or it will become chaotic. If you are going to try to get them to accept an order back after the two week trial period, or if you are going to try to get them to get Nikon or Minox to honor warranty on a gray market product, or something similar, it just isn't going to happen.

Overall, I would give B&H a high passing grade. I like Roberts Distributors in Indianapolis and Calumet in Chicago too. Both are run ethically. But B&H is run ethically, and offers very competitive pricing and convenience. They are a good bet - but don't let your guard down in any mail order business transaction.

I must second the above comments about B&H. Out of all the monkey business that goes on from advertisers in Pop. Phot. they are clearly above the rest in their dealing with customers and honesty. Perfect-no but certainly the best out of the lot. I thank the author of this page and the other people who responded for some valuable information. For those in the Washington DC Metro area, there is a small unadvertised store that comes fairly close to NY prices-Vienna Camera in Virginia. Decent folks who sell a wide array of camera and dark room equipment.

At one time you could deal with Midwest Photo on cameras and lenses, but recently they have become as bad as most of the lower priced groups. I purchased a lense from them and when it turned out some terrible pictures, tried to trade it back in for a better and potentially more profitable (to them) lense. They told me that the lense worth had dropped by $300. When I asked why, the salesman replied that That lens would rent fo $25 a day!! I thought, pretty good rental fee for a 150 3.5 MC Bronica ETRSi lens. They have lost my business permanently. The best I have dealt with are B&H for new and KEH Camera for used equipment. Never have been reamed!! The worst of course is AAA and you can e-mail me for my lengthy letter on the old bait and switch deal they pulled!!

I can relate to Lee's thoughts on Midwest. They may be great for some things, but my experience with them is that they will try to take you to the cleaners. Since they are stereotypical "traders," if you keep your own wits about you, you can come out OK. But if you let down your guard, you could get reamed.

As for KEH, their prices on eos used gear aren't significantly cheaper than B&H prices on new gear, and sometimes they want MORE for their used stuff than B&H wants for the same item new. Still, they do seem to be pretty honest and they will do what they say they will. You won't find them playing bait and switch or misrepresenting their gear.

I would like to add Abbey Camera to the list of good folks to deal with. They advertise in Shutterbug and list only a store in Philly, but opened a store in Baltimore about two years ago as well. They have a pretty good catalog, will try to match quantity prices on soft goods (at least the Baltimore store will) and have a good stock of paper and chemicals (with some odd omissions). A few years ago I was printing for a show and ran out of a specific Forte paper I was using. Abbey in Philadelphia was the only place I could find it and they offered ot to me at 100 sheet prices even though all they had was 25 sheet packs. Helix in Chicago also used to be pretty good, but I haven't used them in a while - does anybody else shop with them?

Bill

I live in Japan and Have visited all ofthe shops you have discussed. Regarding the Yokohama Yodobashi shops, the main shop is the biggest, but it doesn't carry as many item examples as the Shinjuku store. From what I could derive from the saleman in Yokohama, the Shinjuku store carries an example of all the merchandise. Be warned, it is very cramped. There are also a variety of used stores here. (directions-Take the Keikyu line to the Shinagawa Station from Yokohama. Buy a JR line and goto to platform one/two of the Yamanote line. This is a circular line so you can't get lost get off at Shinjuku and exit through the north or east exits. Yodobashi is across fromthe station in the big open roundabout/square. The square is closed to vehicle traffic on Sundays. The points card for Yodobashi in now a six percent discount.) I also know of some more camera shops in Ginza with great prices and/or good variety. E-mail back if you want directions. Lastly, most of the used shops give trade-ins, especially in Ginza and Shinjuku. I got a 30,000 yen (yen rate about then was 100 yen-$1.00) discount last year on a new EOS55 (ElanIIE-QD) for a Canon T-90 and AV-1. James Massie

I have dealt with B&H for past half a year (and ~$5000) and so far been quite pleased with them. There were 2 times when there were problems with my order, and both times they were rectified in quick and just manner. (They replaced a cracked plastic development tray at no charge). However, once they shipped me a bottle of NH-4 developer instead of Permawash, and when I complained, they shiped me my Permawash, but charged for it. Anyways, I ended up keeping and using the NH-4 later. Also, they are doing a great job with thei web site, give it a try at . They also say that they will "honor" lower prices on the net, even if it contradicts their catalog. I saw the price of EOS-1n to be ~1100USD, and then "jump" to standard ~1400USD. I guess somebody bought it at "reduced" price... So keep an eye on those prices.

Agnius

I haven't spent a lot of time comparing KEH and B&H prices, but since KEH prices look good to me, I will unabashedly plug them. My photo prof here recommended them to me while I was doing research to buy--he's used them for many years. I had called B&H, but found them much less helpful than KEH was--with B&H I got transferred around and grunted at. KEH answered lots of questions, didn't rush me, made useful and non-pressuring suggestions, and was very clear about details like shipping, batteries, etc. so I didn't get any surprises. I've ordered stuff from them several times by now and have always been pleased. That's my 2 cents.

Have dealt with Thompson Photo Products (www.thompsonphoto.com) several times. The service has been excellent, the used equipment I have bought has been in like-new condition and the prices the best I have found. In summary, rating of 10 out of 10.

I got a fair price on a used 4X5 and a great price on a 240 G-Claron from Del"s Camera in Santa Barbara, CA. Everything was as stated. No complaints! If you quote a B&H or Adorama price to Calumet they will often make an accomodation. They won"t meet the price but they may narrow the gap to the point where the difference is worth it due to the reliability factor.

Houston camera buffs can find a good deal at the Houston Camera Exchange. Now housed in a defunct nightclub, they claim to be the largest used camera store in Texas and, from what I've seen, I don't doubt it. Their display cases are old, poorly lit, and crowded with cameras, bodies, and lenses. They say they can do mail order, though I've always gone to the store. I've half a dozen cameras and outfits from them. My last purchase there (21 July 1996) was a remanufactured Nikon 35Ti for $US499. If you are in southeast Texas and need a camera, I suggest you give them a call. Their number: 713 789 6901.

Had a recent bad experience with Marine Park. In a nutshell, they told me they had a particular lens in stock which would be sent immediately. After several calls, they said it was being dropped shipped from Nikon. I called Nikon who said that was a lie. I finally called and cancelled order after repeated lies. They finally admitted it was back ordered. Now I have been screwing around with them to get credit on my card. I have fulling around with this since June. I have found B & H and Camera World to be the most reputable although I think many of the B & H staff tend to be pushy and arrogant while Camera World is very friendly. But, I find them both to be truthful.

I bought a Minolta 400si last Sept. 04, 1997 and a 28-300mm Vivitar last Sept. 03, 1997 from Abe's of Maine in New York. I received these merchandise after 15 days thru UPS. (Why is it a very very delicate that's why it took 15 days?) They charged 20 dollars for the S&H for the Camera and 40 dollars (40 dollars!!!!) for the lens. (What is this! making profit?) When I tried to use - Whooooh - the autofocus is not working. I tried to focus on a bright object - too dark. Even I'm going to use the manual focus. Just like I'm on the dark room. I called them and they said that I sshould contact Vivitar. 20 or more minutes or arguing. They said that I have to send it back. (Why! to charge me 40 dollars again when they send the new one! No way!) I'm just like a tennis ball with a lot of players playing with me. Connecting to the Manager, sales person etc. etc. I told them tfor a refund. Man, I sent thru US Postal Service - believe it or not. I just spent 12.35 (w/ ins.) dollars and it took 3 days only from Ca. to N.Y.

I just bought a Nikon FG, and 35-70mm f/3.3~4.5 zoom from National Camera Exchange, the body price matched B&H ($240.00), and the lens was about 25% less than B&H ($165.00)!! They were extremely helpful, since they called all of their other stores looking for this particular lens. I went back the following day to get a copy of the owners manual and a tripod, they gave me the manual for free, apologized for not thinking of it, and then proceeded to spend an hour trying out tripods with me!! Maybe this guy just didn't have anything to do that day, but he ensured that I'm going to be a repeat customer!!!

call them at: 1.800.873.1979

They also have free shipping!!

Ben

Jack's Camera in Muncie IN. (765)282-0204 Run multiple page ad in Shutterbug. Buys, sells, trades. They have a large used area with an inventory that ranges from modern to antique, mundane to exotic, subminiature to large format, lighting, darkroom. They travel to major shows like most big used dealers and will try to locate specific pieces with no extra finders fee. They are honest and fair with no big company excuses. I've bought from B&H and Dell's, and donated several hundred dollars to Cambridge (which I am still mad about after 15 years), and as good as B&H and Dell's are, if Sean at Jacks can't find it for me, then I guess I didn't really want it.

I don't doubt that people were screwed by various mail order companies. My exterience with Smile was not a bad one. i got my F3 5 yrs ago, my 500 mirror lens 4 yrs. ago, and my girl's pentax 115 2 yrs. ago. All very cheaply priced, packaged well and arrived quickly. I've had good fortune 3 outta 3. Texas

Another magazine is available besides Shutterbug. Camerashopper(P.O. Box 1086, New Canaan, Ct. 06840, email; camshop@aol.com) is only $20 a year, and their ads only cost 10 cents a word. I have bought many cameras from their ads. Unlike Shutterbug, the magazine is dedicated to used cameras. They have excellent articles about used and collectible cameras. The prices in the ads seem to be a little lower than they are in Shutterbug. I have sold cameras through their ads as well. The best results I've had were from ads that listed items that I want to buy. At 10 cents a word, I can afford to write an ad and I can write it out more thoroughly than I could afford to in Shutterbug.

Without rehashing previous letters, I have found B&H to be downright civil lately, though not likely to give free advice. Camera World lately seems to be harried and overwhelmed. For used Nikon stuff, I have found Ritz (Phoenix), Glazer's (Seattle), Thompson (Knoxville) and Charlotte Camera to be good, honest and helpful. Midwest Photo can be a little slippery but quick to haggle, so it pays to know the market (talk to Stu to make a deal).

I must relate a bad experience with B&H Photo. I ordered a Minolta camera from them because of the recommendation from this site. The camera I received was defective right out of the box. I guess that can happen, so I called them and was told to return it to them. Then the trouble started. I returned it Fed-Ex and I know when it was received and who signed for it. However, daily calls to their return department resulted in being told they were too busy to look for the camera, and anyway, it would have to be returned to Minolta for repair. This was unacceptable. I wanted a new camera that worked, because that was what I paid for. After a week of being told they didn't know if the camera was in their return department, I sent a letter to them as well as e-mail to Mr. Posner. I have never received a reply. If this is how they handle customer relations, then I think they need to do some soul searching. I finally had to notify my credit card company not to pay their bill, and I ordered the camera from another store. Be aware that these stores are not always what they claim to be.

Although I am in agreement that B&H is an great shop with some great prices, I disagree about Smile being on the "Don't Trust" list. I have never ordered from Smile mail order, but have purchased many items in person from Smile. This shop is the only one of the batch which takes time out to answer questions and assist someone with questions about their products. Although Smile may be a few dollars more, their expert advice is worth the extra money. B&H is honest and has a good price, but the hardly have time to take your credit card number, no less answer a question. Wait on the line around the corner at lunch some day and you will see why.

Also, for good information, check out Wall Street Photo. They will also take time out to answer your question, But they are a little on the more expensive side. You get the service you pay for!

With out a doubt, CCI & Beach Camera are the biggest crooks. If you find an good deal at these store, it is not true. There latest scam is to advertise rock bottom prices on quality merchandise. When you go to order that item, they will try to talk you into a similiar item by a different manufacturer. These other items are usually pieces of junk and they will try to charge as much as twice the list price. If you question them or the item, they will act like your friend and tell you that they will give it to for below cost. This is not true, the price is still way too high for an item of questionable quality. For over a year, Beach Camera has been advertising a Minolta 5400HS for $247. THEY NEVER HAVE IT IN STOCK AND IT IS ALWAYS ON BACK ORDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you do not go with the junk they offer you instead of the item you called for, they will eventually take your order for the item you wanted originally. They will charge your credit card and never even attemt to mail you the item you ordered. Until you call them and cancel your order, they have your money!!

CCI runs the same scam.

Helix camera in Chicago, IL is an excellent place to shop. They are more expensive than B & H, but they are always happy to answer questions. I always buy my low-cost items at Helix.

I have never had a problem with B&H.

I had an interesting experience with Del's Camera, Santa Barbara, CA. I bought a 210 Rodenstock 4X5 lens, with shutter, but received it with a press shutter, somewhat less useful than the standard Copal that you can cock and have less chance for camera shake, etc. I did talk to them and they were very clear that I could return it for a full refund... no questions asked. Very informative in the large format arena, and appear to be a bit pricey but honest. Anyone want to trade a standard Copal for a press shutter?

After reading good reviews about B&H, I went there to purchase a Minolta FZE this week. While they are probably not the worst of the lot, my experience was not exactly great. The salesman was not particularly friendly or helpful. The price for the FZE was $165, even though it was listed in the Pop. Photo and their own catalog for less ($139). He said that was becasue it was a different model of the Minolta FZE 28-70 with date stamp, and that the cheaper model did not have many of the features of the expensive one, and that he wasn't even sure they had the cheaper one in stock. I asked to see the manual that comes with the camera and he said they did not have it available and that he didn't understand why when he could answer any questions. When I said I'd take it (I'm leaving this week on vacation and said I'd take the more expensive model - out of sheer frustration and lack of time and the fact that none of these places seems any better) he pulled one right out from the shelves, but I was not allowed to open the box, look etc. until I paid for it up at the register. He also tried to convince me to have it shipped, because I would save a few dollars because of the sales tax. Although I did get it for less than I'd pay here in NJ and the camera works well and all and I would probably even shop there again, the service and attitude were not what I'd expected and I think even with them, you have to be cautious when you read ads listing low prices and find out exactly what you are getting for the price. I don't know if they were more patronizing to me becasue I'm a young woman, or what, but that's how I felt they were.

I just wanted to add, in fairness to B&H, that Henry Posner from B&H contacted me and was very reasonable apologetic etc. etc. and I was very satisfied with how he handled my frustration. I feel that my one not so great experience should not effect me or anyone else going to B&H. In fact, I will go there in the future and, as Mr. Posner pointed out, if I'm having trouble, ask to speak to someone else. This did sound like an isolated expereince and everyone I've talked to at B&H since has been very good, and other people I know, after making inquiries the last few days, have been very satisfied with them. The camera works great, I'm happy with the pictures, and I think this is a great site (along with it's related sites!)

Man do I wish I had seen this page earlier. I got screwed bt those sons-of-bitches at Marine Park. They are very good at the bait and switch...in fact I didn't realize I'd been screwed until my order was placed and it was too late! When I realized I'd been duped I tried to cancel my order...try that one some time! Marine Park has a mysterious "customer service" Manager which is really just a voice mailbox...calls never get returned and letters go unanswered as well. Take it from someone who learned the hard way, DON'T BUY FROM MARINE PARK UNLESS YOU ARE READY TO GET FUCKED!!! Pay more and buy locally if you can...then you can go down to the store and raise hell if you need to...man is my ass sore...

In regards to B & H. Ordered 500 sheets of Illford Multigrade Fiber Based Photography Paper from B & H last month. Both Boxes (comes in boxes of 250) had seals on all four sides of box. All were broken. Who knows what shape the paper was in. So sent the whole shipment back and demanded that they replace with boxes that have intact seals. Also wanted them to pay for shipping back to their warehouse. They said ok! But in order to speed up process of getting the new shipment of paper I had to buy a second shipment on the assurance that B & H would credit my account. They credited my Visa minus all shipping charges. I had to call and complain. They credited my Visa again minus the shipping charge I had to pay to get the first set of boxes back to their warehouse. I had to complain again. They credited my Visa again but not full amount of shipping charge I had to pay to ship their boxes back. I had to complain again. I am still waiting for the credit. So, they have cheap paper, bad service if you don't know what you are doing. If you do know what you are doing, you are gambling if you order through them.

Another Scam:

Beware of this mail-order ripoff:

About 12 years ago, I was a photo novice and ordered a Cannon T-70 set... I don't remember which company, but this ploy is common. The "electronic flash" had a chart on the back of and the photographer was supposed to calculate exposure based on distance to the subject, film speed, focal length of the lens and ambient light. But hey, the flash had a transistor inside it, so technically it was electronic. Not the least bit automatic, not able to communicate with my camera, but electronic as promised.

The lens included in the package was a 28-90 zoom from a manufacturer ashamed to put their name on the product. Strange pictures when the lens was close to either extreme of the range.

If you are buying a package, don't assume that you are getting components from the camera manufacturer unless each item is specified. Look for brand i.d. and part numbers.

My most recent encounter with B&H was as close to being pleasant as I have had. Their staff is undoubtedly the rudest, short, sharp-spoken of all. I will say they have dealt with me honestly so if you want fair and thrifty, try B&H, if you want civil, try somewhere else. And, for Pete's sake, don't ask any questions!!!

I love in the Indianapolis area and am blessed to have Roberts Distributers (Paula, Chuck, either of the Mikes). Although I order film from B&H, I have found that it is well worth some little extra to have people who are willing to talk, help and have fun. I have not had an occasion to mail order from them, but can't imagine their being any different.

Cambridge took an order for an enlarger and did not ship it for a month. At the end of the month, they tried a bait and switch, trying to charge me $200 more for accesories that were supposed to come with the enlarger (Durst). I told them to put the order where the sun don't shine!

I complained in writing to Shutterbug and Pop Photo. I got a post card from Shutterbug acknowledging receipt of my letter. That's it!!

Ordered an Omega C760 XL from B&H. It arrived in TWO days!!!

B&H has all of my business now! Their new professional catalog out in April is a wealth of information on MF and LF and lots of gadgets!

With respect to buying used equipment, KEH is an excellent source. They will probably never be the lowest place around; indeed, they are more likely to be the highest. But, they are honest. I have dealt with KEH over some years now, and I have been completely satisfied. Their ratings of equipment are super-conservative, their sales staff will go out of their way to tell you about any defects they are aware of, snf they will absolutely honor their guarantee. There is, in fact, little risk in buying from KEH. (I have never tried to sell any equipment to them, and I would guess that like most, their offers will be maybe 40% of what they will turn around and ask for the same equipment, but I am speculating.) By all means get their catalog. Unless you are jhooked on new equipment, you will do well to buy items from KEH. (P.S. I do not have any interest in KEH.)

A visit to NYC would be an eyeopener to many who have posted information about various camera stores. B&H looks like they could convert it to a shoe store in about 25 min. But depite its lack of any photo soul, its neat, easy to navigate, and indeed offers great prices! Film on ice, at the lowest prices!

Wall Street Camera looks there might be several thousand used cameras in a 5'x10' space....it's either a delight or frightening depending on how you like to shop, nothing else like it in the world.

Cambridge will scare you, so will Olden, but there are still some amazing bargains on used equipment at Olden. They both look like they might be going out of business tomorrow, but I promise they will be in business until the apocalypse!

Anyone who stays in some of these stores would find a visit to a war zone comforting.

There are places like Lens and Repro and Ken Hansen Photo that are so wonderful, and so NYC, that you understand why this is still the photo capital of the world.

Hey this is NYC not Peoria....order with care, and have fun.

Well everyone has a zillion nice things to say about B&H. However, I had a different experience. I called them up to order a Nikon 6006. They told me that that model had been dicontinued and I should buy another MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE Nikon. Then, I called J&R. They were out of the 6006 but were getting more in the following week. Then, I called FOCUS Camera. They had 34 in stock and the best price of anyone. I bought one by mail order and had it two days later.

This page is very informative. If American readers of photo.net don't mind making this topic a bit broader (please say if you do mind), I'll appreciate if European readers of photo.net provide experience with mail orders on this our funny old continent. Currently I'm living in Denmark - probably the worst place in the world to buy photo equipment. (Example: Canon lens EF 70-200/2.8 USML. B&H US price $1440, gray market price $1230. The lowest price in Denmark equals $2150. If I order from overseas, I'll pay some 30% duty.)

I want to try TechnikDirekt in Germany or Cyberphoto in Sweden. (No duty within the EU.) Any experience? Other ideas?

What a nut. Jay at Giftime Discount Center is a screaming blooming idiot. I called told him to price Pentax ZX-10 with 28-80 Tamron lens in kit with 4 year extended War. He started asking for other prices I already had, and for my credit card number. I told him to quote me a price and he went crazy.What type of operation can Gifttime be running to ask for your credit card number before you even get a price. Stay away from Giftime and That idiot Salesman Jay The Screamer.

I've had some unsettling experiences at both B&H and Adorama. Nothing specific but I guess they seen I'm not in there to buy an F5 so they treat me like I'm not there to buy at all.

I live in Westchester County New York and in the past year, I've pretty much bought everything from a new N90s to misc. darkroom chemicals from Arista Camera of Bronxville. A bunch of nicer guys never sold a lens, trust me.

A negative experience with Adorama: I called the place earlier today to ask them whether they had the P&S camera I was looking for. They said they did, and quoted me a very reasonable price. When I came there a few hours later, they said that they only have the date model of the camera (which was ridiculously more expensive). When I confronted them rehaarding what they told me on the phone, the salesman started being overly defensive and saying that he alone sold 15 cameras today, so maybe they did have it earlier in the day.. He couldn't tell me when they'd be receiving a shipment of new cameras. When I asked to look at the date model, he took it out of the box, but refused to put they battery into it(!) even though the camera came with the battery, which was in the box. I lost several hours going needelessly to the City... quite unpleasant.

Discovery Cameras in NYC is run by a group of sheisters. I ordered an Elan IIe from them and received the Elan IIe (TWO months later!!!), but with a Sigma 28-80 and 100-300. I had specified only the advertised special USM 28-80. So they gave me inferior lenses and then hit me with an extra $300 charge. I called them and they told me that's what I ordered. Then I sent the Sigmas back and contested the whole event on my credit card. I don't know what the credit card company worked out with them.

The worst part is that I'd called B&H before and compared their best price with the price at Discovery. B&H said they'd match the price, until I told them it was from Discovery. The man on the phone told me that Discovery was not legit, so he couldn't match them. I went with Discovery over a $10 difference. Let me tell you how stupid I feel.

I purchased a camera from Camera City (CCI) and they were a rip off. First of all, they overcharged me. Within 2 hours of my purchase I called to rectify the situation and they claimed that the order had already been shipped. To return the order, you are out 15%, plus the 9% that they charge for shipping. What a rip off. I was able to get the same camera with a better lense at Tri State Camera & Video at a lesser price.

I found B&H to be very professional and efficient. They had what I wanted in stock and shipped it out the next day at the price I expected. Two days later I received exactly what I wanted.

For used equipment, it can be easy to get ripped off, especially if you're dealing through the mail. Of the advertisers who are regularly in Shutterbug, I can highly recommend two, Cameta Camera in Amity N.Y., and KEH Camera in Dallas, TX (No relation to KEH in Atlanta). I recently bought a complete 4x5 System from Cameta, and it was actually better than advertised. I was quoted a shipping charge, and they actually ate the additional charges, only charging me what they quoted (About $40.00). And, I dealt with the owner, a definite asset. All in all, it was a pleasant experience. As for KEH, I've been buying and selling from them for six years, and I've never had a bad experience with them. Vern, the manager of the store, is a working pro photographer and is always willing to chat, and all of the other employees know their stuff. They are also extremely conservative with their ratings. Many times, equipment I might consider to be be excellent, they've rated as user. And, they've never failed to take back defective equipment (for store credit). KEH/Dallas, TX is a first class outfit, and an outfit you can trust. Hope this helps all of you used buyers.

I was buying a new camera a few weeks ago. And I found a good on-line shop New York Camera (www.ny-camera.com) from Europe (Germany) with good very low prices and what is even more important an excellent customer support (prompt e-mails, fulfilling special wishes regarding shipping and taxes, multiple language support, fast shipping, etc). I really am satisfied and I recomend them to anyone!!!

In addition to B&H, the following have earned my trust: Wall Street, Cameta, Midwest (in contrast to other's experiences -- mine have all been good, and KEH (although their prices are never low, they sometimes have stuff no one else carries). By the way, the KEH folks in Atlanta indicate that the Dallas store has the same ownership, but independent management.

Screwed by Photographic Camera & Video in NYC. I originally placed an order for a Nikon SB-28, The gentleman advised they were out of the import version, however they could sell me a "better" flash @ $249 a Sigma EH-430. He advised this was their better flash for my Nikon N90S. ( fact: they only make one OEM flash) I called back within a hour to cancel after I found the flash for $189. They had already charged and shipped my flash. Shipping was 7% of 249 so $17 to ship a flash via US Mail to Alaska !! It only weights about a pound if that !! So much for priority mail rates. At this time the flash has not arrived, and it's been a week. I did send them a certified letter canceling the order and advised my Visa bank that I will dispute the charges both shipping and flash. So my advice is shop around, Don't be fooled by low prices, check the dealer out if possible. Stay away from these guys !!

If you like to argue for your refund, please go "Camera Care at Philadelphia". In fact, they just want your money, but, they don't care about their service and refund policy...REPUTATION!!!. The first time experience that I had was on last May,1998. I requested the refund by using different ways and from different persons. Actually, they(from staffs to manager, Steve) were a tough guy to talk to. And they were impolitely(using foul language) to talk with thier customer. You'd know I tried more than 40 times during a month to talk to these immoral persons for only $480. After 45 days, I believed I had to write a letter to my credit card company to explain this case and ask her to take care this refund. Eventually, I got back my refund...but I will never do a purchase with this "Camera Care...they really don't care" company. The address is: 908 Arch Street, Philadelphia, PA 19107. Phone # is 215-925-7805.

Ansue

I'm just getting into photography, and am not impressed with B&H Photo-Video's walk-in store.

I walked in on Sunday afternoon and found the store packed with people, signs and transparent partitions. I was rather worried that I wouldn't have any time to talk to the salesperson and consider my purchase. Instead, the salesperson was simply uninformative. I wanted to get a wide angle lense for my Pentax ME-Super. The salesdroid recited the Sigma catalog to me, offered no suggestions or advice that I couldn't have found in Sigma's literature or on the web.

On a Sunday afternoon in late December, I walked into a photo shop in a mall in Oregon. There place was prety sleepy despite the pre-Christmas rush taking place in the rest of the mall. It was a much more relaxed environment, a place where I could escape from the mad rush of the rest of the mall. The salesperson I spoke to told me about the Nikon vs. Cannon debate (at that time, I was thinking of getting a new AF body, didn't know my dad wasn't using his Pentax anymore) and even suggested that a large format camera would also be an interesting place to start (the store didn't carry any large format equipment, but he named another store which did).

As a beginner who is still learning a lot, I like to get my hands on things before I buy them. A local camera shop seems to be the way to go. Unfortunately, B&H Photo-Video is now my local camera shop. The one new equipment guy I spoke with was no more helpful than a printed catalog. Unfortunately, local camera shops don't tend to carry much more than a few of the most popular cannon/pentax/nikon/minolta bodies and a handful of lenses.

In conclusion, B&H had a very impressive stock of equipment, but the customer service was only pleasant. Any of the local (small) camer shops I've been to have had far more informative employees.

I agree with James' comments about B&H. I was there this past Sunday and it was packed with people. I was hoping that I can play with a few SLRs I have chosen for my first camera and I only got about 10 minutes on a Canon and a Nikon (that's body only). However, I think this might have something to do with the fact that they are closed on Saturday so people who has the weekend off can only go visit the store on Sunday. I will stop by there one more time during weekdays see if I have a better luck.

I live in Texas and have purchased several (lost count when I include pt & shoots) cameras and lenses from B&H in New York during the past six years, the last being a Canon EOS1n in '99. They get an A++ (my highest) from me. Once I got past the NYC accent and style, I did fine. Second choice is Camera World of Oregon, but they do not trade and will sometimes"lean on" you with some sells. My one serious BAD experience (had to mention a lawyer!) was with SMILE PHOTO. Caveat emptor big time folks. Maurice Weed

Why I'm not particularly impressed with Adorma:I was in a small camera shop in the Detroit area yesterday when a fellow from Adorama dropped in on what looked to be a buying trip. He was dressed rather shabbily (other than the embroidered "Adorama" shirt) and driving a cheap rental car, and spent a lot of time looking aorund the store, much to the amusement of the shop owner. After a while he started making inquiries about a certain camera. You care asking how much? Ah. Interesting. At that point he whipped out his cell phone and dialed what we were supposed to think was a call back to the office. "Hello, this is (name deleted to protect guilty). Do we have any of (camera name)? Oh, we have two? I didn't know that. So we don't need one? Yes. Thank you." Well, I spent some time in retail dealing with guys like this, and the shop owner hadn't exactly just fallen off the turnip truck, either. For one thing, we both know you have to dial more than seven numbers to call New York City from Detroit ;-) So I shot a gesture to the shop owner- the universal signfor "he's jacking you around"- and said owner, who was already close to cracking up, had to turn around to keep from laughing out loud. This little play having been completed, Mr. Adorama left noting he'd be back the next day. He'll no doubt come in saying well, you know, we don't really need that camera, but I'll offer you (ridiculously low price) and maybe I'll buy that opne, and that one... I'm just sorry I won't be there to watch what happens next ;-)

Recently I called Cambridge Camera Exchange to get a price and "possibly" order a new lens. They told me they do not quote prices over the phone. I would have to shop around and then they will beat the lowest price I received.

I called back, they beat B&H by $5. Told me the item was in stock and proceeded to add $40 in shipping charges onto a UPS ground order. Now, considering that UPS only charges $5 for the shipping these guys are not really beating the B&H price.

Buyer beware, I thanked them and moved on.

Another warning about Photographic Photo in NYC. I ordered some stuff, the clerk was very nice, and accepted my request for 2nd-day air; I called 2 days later for a tracking number and... the whole thing is back-ordered 4-6 weeks! Bastards! Given his reaction on the phone, it's clear this is standard practice with them. I instantly called my credit-card company, and the creeps (Photographic Photo) hadn't yet charged it... but I'm planning on extreme vigilance for a while.

Just want to add a comment for www.cameraworld.com The best shopping web I ever seen. Recently I bought a sunpak 355AF, $54.99 from www.camera.com It disappointed me with the quality of the product, but I found out something very interesting. I got an email from its president giving me, as an existing customer (from SUnpak $54.99), a promotional code for 10% off for everything on the web, even the already discounted one. Wonderful....!!

The code is good until the valentine's day, and I ended up with more than $6,000 order, including 2 Nikon F5 for $1754.99 each. Absolutely US warrantee, AF-S 80-200mm F/2.8 (the new one) for $1,349. Moreover, the shipping is free..... I saved morethan $600 for my order..

Its web is very convenient to search, well organized, and updated very often. I give 9 out of 10 for it. (the 1 left is due to the poor order checking status which is not automatic)

Their customer service is very nice, even difficult to reach sometimes. (I used to wait on the line for more than 10 minutes)

What I'm really surprised and I have to give Cameraworld "Excellent Award" is that they credit me back for the Sunpak 355AF, I returned by regular mail without any tracking number. ( I asked my friend to ship it for me and I forgot to tell him to use the shipping with tracking number) They can just ignore my return and say they never seen any box returned back, but they are honest. At first, I thought that I lost this flash in the mail already...

To sum up, I believe www.cameraworld.com is the best online shopping web on earth. Their site is very cool. Their prices are reasonable, and with the promotional code, unbelievable.

I wish I will get another promotional code from them again. (Hope they don't cut me off the list since I bought too much)

Today, I just placed a $2,000 order with B&H. I had to order B&H because Cameraworld doesn't have grey market. This order is for my friend going back to his home country, so the grey is the best deal. I'll tell you more once I got my order.

PS F90x I just ordered from B&H is $710, higher than $674.99 (with promotional code that is not available any more). I'm so sad that I didn't order with cameraworld before Valentine's day and get the US-warrantee at the lower price..

"The 'electronic flash' had a chart on the back of and the photographer was supposed to calculate exposure...But hey, the flash had a transistor inside it, so technically it was electronic. Not the least bit automatic, not able to communicate with my camera, but electronic as promised."

Any flash that uses a xenon tube instead of a disposable flashbulb is electronic by definition. An electronic flash doesn't necessarily have automatic exposure, TTL metering or any other advanced features. It's unfair to slam a dealer for perpetrating a "scam," when in fact the problem is the purchaser's unrealistic expectations.

This is a nice site from which I've learnt a lot helpful info. Now I just want to throw my 2 cents here on the mail-order services provided by some camera stores in NYC.

About a week ago, I's gonna buy a new Nikon FM2 body. So I started to call several camera stores in NYC, including (in alphabetical sequence) B&H, Cambridge, CCI Camera City, Coast To Coast, Discovery, Focus, Smile, TriState, 21st Century, and some others. What happened to me was almost exactly like some folks have written here on this page, when they first quote you, they will throw a very attractive price to you in order to drag you into the door; but as soon as you're ready to place the order (or even worse -- after you've provided your credit card number to them), there almost always will be some kinda girmicks coming up, eihter the just-quoted price has become "grey-market" one which is "unfortunately" out of stock at this moment (or not covered by any warranty) and you'll have to go with something more expensive, or the just-quoted price has become "doesn't include this accessory/function" or "that accessory/function". Among all the gimicks, the worst (maybe "the most imaginative") came from Coast To Coast. The "saleman" with the company, he's called Kenny (or something like that), he quoted me for $327 on the FM2 body in the first place and kinda immediately started to push me for placing an order by using my C/C, which made me pretty suspicious about his motive. I guess I've been pretty stupid through my life but just NOT at that moment. I told him I'd be driving to the store on the weekend to pay cash over the counter (as I'm living not too far away from the Big Apple). As soon as he heard that, he asked me to hold on a minute and then walked away from the phone. Later he came back telling me, "Sorry sir, the price I just gave to you was for Niknon FM2, which is now out of stock. But we've got FM2N here, the price is a bit higher, but this model is a lot better." I asked how much then, he said that's gonna be $430 ($100 more!!!). I then asked, "So can you tell me what's the difference between FM2 and FM2N?" He said, "Oh, there are some big differences. Say, FM2's top shutter speed is only 1/2000, its top synch speed is only 1/125, plus it's shutter is not all metal." -- WHAT A BULLS**T!!! The only difference between FM2 and FM2N is the material used for their shutters -- FM2 uses titanium while FM2N aluminium alloy -- all the rest exactly the same. I just felt I couldn't trust the store at all, not even to mention doing any business. Always trying to play gimicks with customers, I guess this probably is the major reason most of the stores have become hesitant whenever I told them I'd be coming to the store in person and check out the products by myself. Among the above-mentioned stores, the ONLY exception is B&H, which sounded to me like a fairly decent dealership. Their phone direction system was clear and efficient, which connected me pretty quickly to the right person who turned out to be a fairly nice guy; while other stores' phone lines were all playing "1-800-HANG-ON" game with me (more or less, well). The quotes (both "grey-market" and USA, but they told me frankly about it in the first place) given by B&H were actually a bit higher than most of the others (say Coast To Coast, CCI Camera City, etc.); however, they asserted I could drop by anytime during their business hours and would get that genuine product I's asking for at exactly the quoted price with no problem whatsoever. No any other above-mentioned store even had the guts to say a word like that, NOT EVEN ONE.

My conclusion: 1. Can you possibly land a real bargain (compared to your local) on many good products in those camera stores in NYC? The answer is "Yes". 2. Does this always and necessarily happen? This answer is "No". Based on my limited but first-hand experience, you'd better use two brains and keep your hands on your pockets while dealing with most of them. Rule of thumb: Try to stay away from those "too-good-to-be-true" quotes. There is no way for those dealers to survive in this industry while underselling by 20-40% compared to the mainstream. Hope this helps a bit. Good luck to y'all.

As an amateur, I bought my first camera by looking through the pupular and photographic. The first store I dealt with was PHOTOGRAPHIC PHOTO&VIDEO, INC (NY). Because I never knew about sigma lens, so they convinced me that Sigma lens are better than Nikons. I bought $700 package from them include 2 sigma lens. Later on, I found out that the lens was just $100 a piece, but I bought them for $200 a piece. Finally, I returned them and 've got the charged of $200, after an every day-whole week of non 800 called. !!!their minimum restocking fee was raised from 5% to 20%!!!! the sale you must avoid were ! RUTE and BOB. Nevertheless their s&h always 7%, too. So, I went on and searched for a cheap N90, SMILE PHOTO & VIDEO seemed to be the one. First, thing they do when you call is they will raise the price at least $10-20 but it isn't stop there. I ordered the n90 - I think I was posted at $699. Then, they raised $20 bucks. After, I told the the card# they tell me $30 s&h. So, after all I bought the camera at the cost of B&H!!! Now, I want to up grade my camera, so I order F5 from AAA and that was the worst experience. The price in catalog was $1699. When I told him the card#, he ask me if i want to buy viewfinder!!! I didn't know what get in my head but I did say yes. So,now the total become $1998.95. I called B&H after the order, and found out that viewfinder always come with camera (there price was $1800). I called back to AAA but they hung up!! I called them for 2 weeks for cancel but got rejected. So right now I let the VISA deal with them -(don't know what gonna happen). Just avoid this store, the guy name Reed and RUDY- I think both are indian. Finally, I bought F5 from my friend. And bought lens from B&H. They charge $19 s&h for $900 item on 3day delivery. I stop look at the cheap ad. ever since. What can you do when half of your photo mag full of junk. The rated mark from popular photo? they are all freak.

For pretty darn low prices, Focus Camera is a good alternative - Just make sure you order via USPS if you live in a rural town where only a chipmunk is there to sign for (or steal) your package. They ship via UPS with signature REQUIRED. This means that if you have to work for a living and no-one can be bothered to sign for you, you will not get what you order, and chances are UPS will lose it. The salesmen are rude and aggressive, but they have just about everything listed on their page (www.focuscamera.com) and can save you quite a bit on grey market stuff.

It seems like everybody has had good and bad experiences at the same places. I tried to walk in to those stores in NYC to get my first camera 15 years ago, and the experience was so frightening, I had to leave. I did mail order it (can't remember which shop) and got exactly what I ordered, on time, so it does happen.

My second camera and two more lenses came from the local camera shops here in Singapore. The prices are a little higher than the mail order prices, but I cannot tell you what a relief it is to actually hold the equipment in your hand before shelling out hundreds on a lens or camera body.

The thing I don't understand is the grey market warranty on Nikon equipment. I bought my F70 here and it has a world wide warranty (yes, even in the USA). There is a warranty card, with the dealers stamp, and Nikon USA will honor it.

I mail ordered a camera for my father in law this past Christmas, and instead of the N60 I ordered, I got a F60. They claim they substituted the international model as a favor to me since the credit card billing address is in Singapore (never mind that the shipping address was to the USA, and the camera was a gift for someone living in the USA) Visa is working on that one for me. The thing I don't understand is that they say it comes with an international warranty that is still valid in the USA, but the warranty card is missing, so I have to question the validity. They claim that their invoice is suitable. Talk about a bait and switch!

Anyway, from my experience (and it is periodically supported by Pop Photo articles) you absolutely have to steer clear of their stupid battery/filter/strap/case/ offers, or anything remotely resembling a kit that does not explicitly state model numbers of all components. I am convinced they sell camera bodies at close to cost, and make their profit on support items and shipping. Not to mention shoddy service.

I guess sometimes you just have to pay a little more and go with the local camera store. You just can't beat the service and peace of mind.

Notice the link below to Beach camera--then click on the guy who entered it and notice his email domain. Interesting

Since New Orleans is such a mecca for tourism, I thought it would be helpful to add a warning about the shops on Canal Street. They have been "outed" a number of times by local news people, and share the old "bait and switch" and "black-to-grey market" practices of the worst of the NY ripoffs. My own experience when I lived in NO was that I went into one of them once (I forget which) and had asked some "tricky" questions about prices and warranties and had a rude and obscene remark made by the salesperson..naively, I asked for the mgr, who came out, got more obscene and told me to get out or they would tell the police that I was trying to shoplift! (I am a nice, well-dressed, reasonably middle-to-upper-middle class lady..for whatever that's worth!) Scary, n'est-ce pas? Add this sort of customer service to the rest of it and I would suggest that you STAY AWAY from any electronics shop on lower Canal STreet! Check with the local BBB for recommendations or with the French Quarter Business Association for camera supply shops!

I just wanted to warn all of you who are looking to buy camera equipment not to even consider PHOTOGRAHIC PHOTO &VIDEO unless you enjoy getting screwed. I ordered a Canon Rebel G with a 28-200mm Tamron lens from them and have been fighting with them ever since. I ordered out of an ad in Popular Photography and when I called they immediately took the price up $30 stateing that the price advertised was a rebate that had expired. I was going on vacation and was anxious to get a camera so I agreed with their price. I asked if the 1 yr USA Warranty that was advertised was a Canon USA warranty and Morris assured me that it was. I then asked if it was in stock because I wanted it right away. Morris checked and said it was. I requested next day shipping as advertised and was quoted a $30 price for shipping. To make a long story short after many hours on hold and discussing my dissatisfaction with Brad at Customer Service, I received my camera( a European version) 4 days later with a $70 shipping charge. When I called and spoke to Brad again he told me in order to get the Rebel G I would have to pay $10 more plus shipping plus a $70 restocking fee. I was furious and said I was just sending everything back. He said I could not send it back because he refused to give me a Return Authorization # and hung up on me. So much for "26 day Satisfaction Guaranteed". I have sent everything back and I'm not disputing the charge with my insurance company. I have never in my life been treated so badly by a company in my life. And I thought Customer Service was created to provide customer satisfaction! LOL

I have bought lots of camera gear from B&H over the past 3 years. I have had no problems at all. Sometimes they will be extra friendly, but when I place orders from them I always know what I want and what I want to pay. They tell me if it is in stock and how much the shipping is. I would recommend them to anyone who needs pro gear and knows exactly what they want. I have used Calumet Photographic, they are very friendly and very willing to answer your questions. They will send you any information that you request. I would recommend them to anyone also. They both are great places to buy pro film.

I was shopping for a particular Minolta camera which was listed in the PopPhoto add of Cambridge Camera Exchange with CALL instead of a price. When I called their listed 800 number a guy answered with "What's your order". When I asked for the price of the camera he curtly told me to call a 212 number which is long distance for me. When I called that number and asked for the price the conversation went:

CAMBRIDGE: Yes!

ME: What is your price of the Minolta ....

CAMBRIDGE: Why don't you look in our add.

ME: The add says Call and that's what I'm doing.

CAMBRIDGE: Just come into the store.

ME: I live in Virginia and it's a long walk

CAMBRIDGE: We don't carry that camera any more

ME: I'm glad because I would never order from you

I then called Camera World of Oregon, and talked with a very courteous saleman who answered all my questions, after which I ordered the camera.

From this experience, Cambridge is the last place in the world that I would buy from. How do these guys stay in business?

Well, it was a lot of work, but with any luck, I just saved $225-$280 by mail ordering an Elan IIE QD system (28-105 USM lense, 380EX flash, BP 50 grip) from NYC compared to buying from my local camera shop. First I called Family Photo. They must be new, because no one I can see mentioned them in these posts. They tried to bait and switch me. Their gray market camera and lense were from Malasia. I told him I didn't care, ( from posting I know Canon USA would honor the warranty.) The clincher was that he wanted me to buy a Sigma lense instead of the 28-105 USM Canon and he wanted to charge me $25 MORE!!! He said the warranty was only for a month! I knew this was bullshit, all you need is the camera and the receipt to get a 1 yr warranty service from Canon, from what posting I have seen. I said no thanks, just ship me the gray market. He then said that the gray market camera and lense would be drop shipped from Malasia, expect a 5-6 wk wait! At the beginning of the call he said the Canon camera and lense were in stock. I told him no thanks. I called Abe's, where I was told that the lense was grey market with no warranty, but the camera body was US. I probably should have bought it, knowing Canon would honor the waranty with the sales receipt. I called Focus, and paid about $80 more total, but was told this was all USA equipment. Their shipping was a flat $22.50, which was $15-$50 less then the shipping charges that I was quoted elsewhere. We will see what comes in the mail. My credit card company is very good about taking off charges. Focus was rude, wanting credit card numbers before discussing price, or even what I wanted! They would not give me a final total. They answer their phone "Hello", as if they have more then one business operating from that location. The guy was kind of pissed when I wouldn't buy a battery.

The rebate thing is very misleading. They will show $359 for the camera body, and when you call it is $389, as they have netted out a $30 rebate you have to send in. But if the lense is grey market, you will never get that rebate! They know this, yet lie. Will advise of future outcome! MJ

I had a strange experience in New York about two years ago when I went to see some of these camera stores. I was looking to buy a 20-35mm EOS lens and I went into one store (I can't remember the name) and was getting the runaround about how the lens needed a filter and the price was 20 percent more than what was in the ad, etc. At this point I received a message on my cell phone and while reaching for it I uncovered my pistol (I worked as a part-time private detective then). I took the call walking away from the counter. I told my friend on the phone where I was and you could here a pin drop! When I ended my call I went back to the counter and guess what? While I had been on the phone the prices had changed back to those in the ad! I didn't need a filter, and the U.S. Warranty -- from the manufacturer -- was included in the price. There had been a mistake. To make up for it the "manager" was going to take another five percent off the normal price. I told them no thanks. I had all the information I needed and that some of my associates would be around to talk to them about some legal matters. I can't say for sure, but they looked kind of worried when I left. I wanted to look back, but I was trying to keep from laughing.

The next store I went to, before I went in I stood outside and pretended to make a call, and made a big showing of trying to adjust my weapon. Needless to say when I entered the store I had a most pleasant time and was offered "unannounced bargains and discounts."

It's one of those things that make you say, "Hmmmmm!"

Marcus J.

I had a negative experience with AAA Camera. I was looking for a Leica M6 TTL with .85 view finder so, like most people, I called around and checked prices. After some haggling I found that AAA Camera had the best "gray market" prices so I placed the order. I quickly found that the reason AAA had the lowest prices were because AAA doesn't ship what you order. AAA Camera has a new twist on the old "bait and switch" they take your order and then they send you some cheaper product. In my case they shipped me the Leica M6 TTL and .72. view finder, a nice enough camera, but the wrong camera. I ordered and paid for the Leica Ever-Ready Case 'M', they shipped some cheap off-brand camera bag. I ordered and paid for a Leica UV filters and I didn't receive any filters. I should also mention that all the prices charged on the lens, filter, grip, case, and flash where all rounded up to some higher amount ($249.00 to $249.95) than originally quoted. When I called AAA Camera to return the items, that I didn't order, they to tried to charge me a $507. restocking fee. Yes it's amazing, you order one thing and AAA sends you something else and then they want to charge you to take it back. And let me also tell you, I faxed, called and e-mailed them plenty. Phone calls didn't get me anywhere, all they did was put me on eternal hold. I turned it over to my credit card company for dispute resolution. I also wrote the editors of Popular Photography magazine so that they are aware of the questionable business practices of their advertisers. Maybe they will adopt a minimum standard for advertisers. I will never deal with AAA again. If you have to deal with AAA, do it only in person, inspect the goods before you pay for them, and take immediate possession. AAA did finally give me a Return Authorization (RA) number and did agree to take it back without a restocking fee, but not without some pain and suffering on my part. A Mr. Link was the guy who finally gave me the RA number, so if you're having the same problem ask for him and by-pass the rest. Just thought you should know.

I am collecting examples of improper and deceitful experiences customers have had with purchasing camera equipment from AAA Camera Exchange located in New York. This information will be presented to the attorneys General of New York and to Popular Photography. A possible class action lawsuit may be filled based on the information generated. Please send them to me ASAP. I will include you in the suit if it occurs and with your permission.

W Burkett Jr.

WBurkett@ibm.net

I just wanted to comment on Family Photo. I called them today and found out that they are rude and not clear in answering my questions. I asked them for the price of few Canon lenses and they gave me the prices and asked for my credit card number. When I said that I did not say I was going to buy, they hanged up. I don't understand how these people get a check mark from Popular Photography magazine!

Avoid "Camera City" (http://www.ccicameracity.com/) at all costs. They are thieves and liars, to put it delicately.

First of all, I've called several times to verify their prices and availability, and have gotten different shipping information every time. I've determined that they calculate the shipping based on how much of a break they're giving you on your purchase. For example, they offered to cut $60 off the price of a Nikon body & lens (as an incentive to buy), only to then raise the shipping charges by $90. They actually wanted a total of $140 to ship three pounds of merchandise to me.

There's more. I called to buy a lens they had advertised on their web site. After I had given them my shipping and billing information, I was informed that the lens (a brand new, non-gray market Nikkor) actually had plastic elements, and a serious photographer such as myself would be a fool not to prefer the "glass" version. This upgrade would cost me $130 more, which he tried fervently to sell me. He all but refused to sell me the so-called "plastic" version. When I obviously wouldn't be coerced, I was then informed that the shipping (reported to be no more than $30 at the beginning of the call) would now be $140 (no lie). Can you guess how many "versions" of that lens they really had?

Even with the inflated shipping charges, if you think you're getting a good deal, note that shipping is non-refundable. So when you've paid $75 to ship a $400 Nikkor lens, which turns out to be a Mikor, and want to return it, you'll only get back $380 (they have a 5% restocking fee). In case your math is bad, you'd be out $95.

It was an interesting experiment, but luckily, they didn't get a penny of my money. Anyway, beware, or get ripped off.

For photographers interested in either new or used Leica equipment, there are some knowledgeable dealers who specialize in Leica. The three individuals listed below are people I've dealt with and trust. They know the equipment and can tell you in detail the differences between apparently comparable items such as lenses of the same focal length and speed but from different generations or camera bodies (especially important in Leica R equipment). In my experience these folks are reliable, honest, and fair. Their prices tend to be lower than the larger dealers (like KEH, Tamarkin, etc). In some cases, way lower. If they don't have the lens you crave (perhaps a used 400mm f/6.8 telyt made after 1984 in ex+ condition with perfect glass), they can notify you when one comes in.

Don Chatterton 253-549-7900. http://www.donchatterton.com

Jim Kuehl: 515-225-0110, 515-226-0295 (fax) 8527 University Blvd, Suite 9, Des Moines, IA 50325

Sam Shoshan: 888-534-2272 or 203-334-2272, Fax :203-384-2545. http://www.classicconnection.com

AVOID CCI Camera at all costs!

I wanted to place an order for a Canon 540EZ Flash unit and a Sigma 28-80 Lens. The guy took all my info including cc number and then tried to convience me that I should get a Tamron lens instead. Then he told me that the flash is made in Tawain and the Japanese unit would cost 25 dollars more. He said shipping is 15% of the order and I can't cancel the order since he had my number. He wanted to charge me a restocking fee. He was extremely rude and asked why am I wasting his time also.

after reading about the frustration and bad experiences that have been related here, just wanted to pass along the name of a camera store that I have recently had a good experience with "Classic and Used Cameras" (at www.classic-cameras.com). The store seems to be the semi-retirement, internet-only operation of a gentleman named Bill Green.

About 3 months ago I was preparing to go on my honeymoon and wanted a simple, manual camera to shoot 35mm b&w. Mr. Green sold me a Fed 5. He warned me about the spotty quality control of Russian cameras, but assured me that if it worked it would take fine pictures.

I played with the camera enough to figure out how it worked, only to find that it didn't work when you loaded film (the shutter-cocking, film winding mechanism tended to become de-coupled). Anyway, about 3 weeks later I returned and decided to call Bill. I assumed that I would get to pay a restocking fee as I was outside his stated time limit for a no questions asked returned. Mr. Green said that he would be pleased to take the camera back and give me a full refund (minus shipping, fair enough). I was prepared to just take credit towards another camera he had in stock (a Yashicamat). He also offered me a reasonable price for another old camera that I had lying around (and gave me no trouble about it after he received it). When I received the 'Mat it was exactly as he had described. (He also doesn't overcharge for shipping.)

So please drop by his site sometime, he doesn't have a large stock, but if he has what you want, I wouldn't hesitate to deal with him.

For used cameras, lenses and other photo gear I highly recommend Cameta Camera. Their sales staff is friendly, and will answer any questions you may have. They are also low pressure, if an item that you are looking for has been sold, either you can ask them for an equivalent item in the same price & quality range or they may suggest another item to you, but at no time have I ever felt pressured to make a purchase. I have bought several cameras and lenses from Cameta and have been completely satisfied with my purchases. Their product descriptions and quality rating is very accurate. Cameta has also implemented a "new arrival" email mailing list, so that you can keep track of their latest offerings. Another thing that Cameta has going for them is that they are open 7 days a week, unlike other New York camera stores. They also have a 6 month mechanical repair warranty on parts and labor for ALL of their used camera equipment. Does this sound like I'm really rooting for this camera outfit? You bet it does, I haven't had one complaint about them. You can find Cameta on the web at www.cameta.com or call them at (516) 691-1190 (I wish they had a toll free number though).

If cameras treated you like camera stores did:

I'm sorry sir, but I can't autofocus that image. But, for an extra 50.00 I can automatically switch you to manual focus. No??!! -click, dial tone-

What? You turned on the metering but you don't wanna take a picture?!?! -click, dial tone-

Sorry, I don't have a working shutter button in stock at that price. Try again later. -click, dial tone-

I like my local store WB Hunts. Prices are a little higher, but when I can pay them I do.

Ritz Camera has always been good to me. They have never pushed the most expensive camera on me, but the most useful one ... and after I bought it, and I had problems they fixed it without even asking for a receipt. Very classy.

Chris

Just got a package from B&H Photo. I have ordered Canon EOS Rebel 2000 with 28-105 USM Canon zoom and BP-200 battery pack. Quoted camera price $259, the same as on the web site. Quoted price for the lens is $249, $30 less then on the web site. I wanted to by gray market lens, but they dont have them in stock. Battery pack wasnt listed on the web so, I did ask for it. Price for BP-200 is $30, comparable to what others can offer. I did place an order through their web site, no problem. While placing an order decided to by UV filter, and added it to the order list. Got e-mail order confirmation next day. Filter not listed, in a footnote they say: Items not listed are no longer available. Have to be smart next time and request e-mail confirmation for everything I need before placing an order. E-mail order confirmation came next day. Shipping charges were $9.70 for FedEx Saver. Goods were delivered on a third day after placing the order. My overall experience with them can be rated 9+.

Shop online, but beware of penguins ;)

Alex.

Photographic Photo and Video should be avoided.

A week ago I was shopping for a Canon Elan II outfit. I called them up and the sales guy wanted me to buy the new version of the 28-80 lens (USM V) instead of (USM IV). So I asked what the difference is, he said USM V has better optics, faster and quieter. He said it will be 60 dollars more. I didn't trust him so I hung up. Then I called B&H only to find out that there's essentially no difference between the 2 versions, only difference is the cosmestics.

What a fucking liar that guy at Photographic was!

I ended up buying my Canon kit from Camera World of Oregon. $14 for shipping and I had my shipment in 3 days. Excellent service.

My advice is that unless you wanna take the risk of agonizing over these cunning business practices, you are better off dealing with someone who charge more but with better reputation. It ain's worth it.

I have had great experiences with buying from ritz camera stores although I am not picking up professional level 35mm equipment. It is still decent equipment. I cant get into talking with sales droids over the phone about cameras. I like to hold all the things I am buying in my hands before laying down big bucks. Once I used B&W to pick up a ikelite video camera housing and I had a great experience but I would have bought it from a shop if it wasnt such a specility item.

Mike

Hmm, Cameras West in Seattle was OK. As are most local stores. But I bought a used A2e for only $50 more than an Elan IIe. Turns out that if I had used that money at B&H or CWO, I would have been able to get a new A2e with 28-105 lens. When I asked if some sort of compensation was possible, they became very hostile and finally when I ceded to their demands I ended up losing more money. If you are reading this then you are on your first step to real photography. Get a real tripod and primes. If only I could do it over...

I want to add a positive comment about B&H. I bought a used Canon 200 2.8L from them a few months ago for what was a very reasonable price. Without telling me, they included the hardcase for the lens - which was very nice of them. Also, the lens had been serviced by Canon and B&H included the paperwork with the lens.

In other words, they went out of their way to include items I didn't expect. That's customer service.

OBTW - it's a wonderful lens.

I just noticed the comment in the main text about Calumet's "lame" web site. This was certainly true until recently, but my latest Calumet catalog had a promo for their new site at http://www.calumetphoto.com. I logged on and found a complete e-commerce site selling everything in their catalog. It's still a little hard to find things just by browsing, but the search mechanism is very good. I just ordered a bunch of film and two rolls of seamless backing paper (107"). I got an immediate order confirmation with the name of an actual sales representative (and a reply-to header that forwarded responses to him). I'd mistyped my phone number so I sent him a note about that and got an immediate (and polite) personal response, followed a few minutes later by a shipping confirmation.

A very impressive online shopping experience. We'll see what shape things are in when they get to me after a few days in the care of UPS. (Looking back on this comment a few months later, I can report that they were shipped the morning after I ordered them and arrived a few days later in excellent condition.)

I've always liked B&H's web site for the catalog listings, but find their lack of on-line ordering support unpleasant. I've also had some very so-so telephone conversations with B&H sales reps, including a guy in the studio lighting department who was actively rude.

I have to add another positive comment about B+H. I live in New York, and fortunately work close to the store, so I have the opportunity to drop in quite frequently. Last week, I decided to splurge on a Hasselblad 500c kit, with 80mm Planar lens and A12 back -- $1400 dollars with tax, for a rated 8+ camera. After about 5 days of using the camera, and generally being happy with it, I was offered a 500cm from a friend of mine with a T* lens for 1300. I went back to B+H today, spoke to the same gentleman in the used department (whose name I don't recall, unfortunately). He took back the return with no questions asked, and said that he hoped the 500cm worked out well for me.

Really nice guy, and a pleasurable experience in general. In the many times th