Sony A800?

Six months ago I would have said no. But since then, Sony has come with such a range of new cameras, some very similar to each other, that I would not be at all surprised if they come up with 2-3 new top end models by the end of this year. I certainly hope they do. I have sort of already decided that I will get the 24+Mp full frame model (I am on waiting list at the largest local store) and I am unlikely to get a 12-14Mp full frame unless there are huge benefits in doing so (something wrong with the big gun, or hideously expensive).

Having just bought an a100 this January and liking it, I would probably be more easily seduced along the upgrade path by a $1500+ FF 12ish mp body than via the current A700 or by the expected $3000+ A900. That being said, sony presumably won't call a mid-mp FF the A800, as they already use that moniker for one of their models of video-ipod competitors.

Seems like the A800 rumors may have first reached the web here?

Canon set a target out there with the 5D and until now, no one has been able to hit it. The D700 may be playing on the same field, maybe not. There would seem to me to be a fair amount of interest in a competent ff camera that wasn't overburdened with professional speeds and weight for those who might not be shooting NFL games under the lights in the rain. (Besides, I've still got my 28-70/2.8 G)

Yeah, of course they will come out with a super low noise FF camera. But not this year, I just don't think it has been planned AFAIK. Next year, maybe, hopefully.

I don't want or need 24.8MP's. I wouldnt like to spend $$$$ on new glass investment to cope with such extremes either. I didn't want the A700 either, as its nothing revolutionary compared to the Dynax 7 (135mm), but I'm forced to buy it now as my A100 is dying on me.

Nikon will have two FF cameras on the market before we have any. Maybe with this D3X camera that will carry the same 24.8MP camera, they will have 3 cameras on the market before we have anyway?! I certainly hope not.

If Sony would step up a bit I wouldn't have been forced to buy the A700. If I'm spending a lot of money on a new camera, I want it to be something that I know will last me out, sure the A700 will last, just not as long as I would want it to.

Sony's having trouble marketing, knowing who their customer is. I believe they have to expand their thinking and accept that they must recognise many different customers, not just one product and marketing thrust for everybody. Yes, they're expanding to from "consumer" to include "pro", but there's more of us out here than that.

But, they're compromised by the market impression of their own 14 mega pixel sensor for so cheap in the Sony Alpha DSLR-A350. Any camera to cost "more" must have more mega pixels, or so the market and Sony now think, hence the loss of the 12 mega pixel Sony Alpha DSLR-A700 on our local dealer's shelves once the cheaper A350 came out with 14 mega pixels. Though I would LOVE to see a simple (relatively) cheap 12 mega pixel full frame sensor in the entire line of Sony cameras, I think that Sony thinks the buying public sees it as "only 12", and pays little attention to "Full Frame" or not. Heck, Sony has trouble considering us preferring and paying extra for the the controls of the A700 as worth more money, opting instead for marketing features like live view (and why can't they put on the swing LCD from the Sony DSC-R1 if they're gonna put on an articulating LCD at all?!?)!

I think Sony is working on (a) upping the total mega pixel count so that any new sensor has more than previous sensors regardless of sensor size, full frame or APS-Classic, and (b) incorporating live view, and (c) expanding the consumer lens line with the additional focal range of Tamron and their competitors, like 18-250mm over 18- 200mm and so on, and (d) expanding their Carl Zeiss lens lineup to win respect in the professional photographer circuit. Kudos to Sony for marketing a NEW flash design in the rotating body for vertical shots - shame the head doesn't stay orientated to the capture frame, staying a horizontal flash on a vertical frame capture, though.

I do NOT think Sony is working on (a) knobs, preferring fast computerized "Quick Navigation" controls instead, we'll never see another Minolta Alpha/Dynax/Maxxum 507si/600si/650si/9/7 with direct input and readout knobs; nor (b) full frame in the entire DSLR line for the next few generations at least, which would be my preference, but the public is happy with APS-Classic lenses for now - give it 10 years, and let Canon or Samsung lead; nor (c) the "enthusiast" market, instead bifurcating us into only two groups, consumer and pro; nor (d) leading pros with on-board flash, as Minolta did; nor (e) allowing display and view of all control settings through the viewfinder, heck, I'm even addicted to image capture review through the viewfinder, but I suppose I must give up expecting a DSLR to offer that!

DSLR wise, what I want is an A750 with a full frame CMOS sensor, on-board flash, and I'll have to take live view because I think they'll cram it in, but if they compromise the viewfinder, I'll buy a used A700 instead, and then Sony will miss me as a "new" Sony customer. What we'll probably get in a Sony A750 is a 14 mega pixel CCD or 16 mega pixel CMOS APS-Classic sensor instead, probably, because Sony now feels they MUST up the sensor mega pixel size if they are to charge more. That is, if they continue the A700 control design at all! I'm not so much interested in an A800 or A900 without on-board flash, having married the much smaller and lighter Minolta DiMage 5/7/A-series cameras with EVERYTHING in hand and through the viewfinder. I'm like the ol' rangefinder folk who don't want to carry a big SLR kit anymore.

And, besides, the Internet is making "professional" a miscible category, isn't it? I wonder if anyone has compiled a break-out of people who make money with their cameras, total image sales count wise, total dollar value wise, and compare that to the cost, weight, and mega pixels of their cameras. Especially with iStockPhoto and the like, I think the word and practice of being a photography "professional" ain't what it used to be. Perhaps I should even see what the photographer's use to supply the dozen or so photo booth vendors I see at local street markets throughout the weekend.

Sony, are you listening to photographers, or just trying to satisfy your chip factory's desire for world supremacy? I suppose if Sony makes EVERYONE a Sony photographer, that sort of accomplishes both of these challenges, doesn't it?

I see that Sony doesn't really care if Nikon leads the way so long as Nikon keeps buying Sony sensors, then Sony wins - see the ~$2,600 USD street (wag) Nikon D700 full frame 12 mega pixel (DOH!) announcement: http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikond700/

... I see why Minolta gave up and called their camera the "Sweet" in Japan, and why Canon called theirs the "Rebel" in the US. The overlap of numbers has been FIERCE, with Canon and Nikon pouncing all over Minolta nomenclature - Canon 5D, versus Konica Minolta 5D, and now Nikon D700 versus Minolta/Sony A700 ... the older Canon "Elan" 7 versus Minolta 700si/7, and on, and on.

There is no A800 waiting in the wings. Wishful thinking only.

Thats the beauty Douglas F... i'm sure sony will release the A900 to lure the pros in now then wait till next summer to release the lower priced A700 replacement possibly with full frame, (and with PenSung - Pentax/Samsung - threatening a full frame body I'm kinda sure it will happen...) just not this year. They may wait the full 18 month cycle before replacing the A700. If not, then that safely means that the A900 will be sub 2k probably at $1,900.00 body only then maybe $300-$400 more for the grip. I guess its like auto marketing. Let out the big priced Lexus then work your way down. That way you get all your money from each bank instead of everyone getting the cheap one then callin car buying quits!

I've heard the A900 will probably be under the $2,000 mark. But here: http://www.dynaxdigital.com/index.php/topic,5891.0.html there's been a discussion about a possible sighting of something that is probably Sony, but doesn't look quite like what an A900 probably would look like. If it is an experimental camera, could it be an elusive A800... a surprise for us?

"I've heard the A900 will probably be under the $2,000 mark. "

Maybe second hand in year 2014.

If the A900 is really 25Mp full frame, how could it possibly be 20% less than 12Mp full frame cameras from other manufacturers, and why would it be? Sony would leave a lot of money on the table.

Peter- How do you know that Sony is making the FF sensors for Nikon? When Nikon introduced the D3, they said that the camera had a sensor of their 'own' design. While Sony may have made sensors for Nikon in the past, now that Sony is a direct competitor to Nikon, Nikon may have decided to source their sensors from another supplier.

You 'pride' yourself in posting accurate information, therefore, you should check your facts regarding this matter.

Robert, I presume that Peter's point was that the big money for big companies is made in consumer electronics, not professional kit. As long as Nikon buys Sony sensors for their DX bodies Sony will have a sweet deal either way, and if Sony is the actual manufacturer of the FX sensor as well (which many suspect even tho Nikon is the designer) then the reprimand is moot.

That being said, the A900 sighting Andrew mentioned does appear to really have been the A900. If its timing and mp excess is genuinely aimed at cutting into the Canon/Nikon full-frame pie then it would have to be priced at least 10-20% below the 5D or D700 in order to make any impression among the canikon faithful. If not, then it would be more logical for Sony to plan for a 12-14 mp FF body as well, but keep a lid on that until after the A900 settles in.

I'm intrigued by the possible parallels with Sony's strategy in the HD video camcorder market, where they established a first by releasing a sub-$2000 trailblazer model in 05/06 and have continued to outpace the competition since, by releasing half a dozen follow-up models in less than 3 years.

Sourcing a sensor is not a problem for Sony. Nor for their competition. How they package it and how it works for their customers is a big deal. Sony doesn't seem to be making progress any faster than KM did in fielding a broad based system that will attract professionals at one end and enough everyday shooters to pay for the advances at the other. Or that supports the folks in the middle. It seems that to a great extent, Sony hasn't recognized that it's just a lot easier to work/play with Nikon and Canon than it is Sony.

Earlier: "...Sony doesn't seem to be making progress any faster than KM did in fielding a broad based system that will attract professionals at one end and enough everyday shooters to pay for the advances at the other. Or that supports the folks in the middle. It seems that to a great extent, Sony hasn't recognized that it's just a lot easier to work/play with Nikon and Canon than it is Sony..."

In the current Shutterbug magazine issue, August 2008, author photographer Peter K. Burian reports on the current Sony Alpha lineup of the DSLR-A200, DSLR A300, and DSLR-A350 on page 112, "A Trio Of Sony D-SLRs" - favorably praising their capabilities as not just for ol' Minolta shooters, but worthy of consideration by anyone, including shooters of competitive SLR and DSLR brands.

Note the absence of the Sony Alpha DSLR-A700 from the reviewed lineup. Will it be replaced by a Sony Alpha Pro DSLR-A750 when newer cameras are announced? Separate Consumer and Pro targets for Sony AMC Alpha Mount Camera division?

PS - Sony seems to also be keeping Minolta's unique eye start and hand-grip start. Anyone want to start a list of Minolta, er, Sony features we depend upon as marque-specials?

Earlier: "... posting accurate information ..."

Let me suggest that we all add "IF..." to our own and each other's thoughts here, since this whole thread is pure speculation. Remember the thread title:

Sony A800?

... pure fiction. Wishful fiction, yes, but fiction nonetheless.

Okay, no longer speculation.

The Sony A800 not only exists, but is followed quickly by a Sony A810.

http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/08/29/sony.a800.walkman.in.us/

Is THIS accurate enough sharing? =8^0

peter... that last post was great!!! hahahah

Peter wrote "Sony seems to also be keeping Minolta's unique eye start and hand-grip start." This was true, up until the A700, after which the 'hand-grip start' was dropped from the latest cameras. Part of the problem has been that the feature used nickel in design of the part, and that is not allowed in the European market, as nickel has been deemed to be a hazardous material for some reason or other. The US version of the A700 had this feature, but the cameras shipped to the European models didn't have this feature. Later camera models did not have this feature in any market. And the pictures of the upcoming Flagship, also do not show the feature.

So, I guess Peter can cross that one off of the list of features carried over from Minolta.

... we all can.

So, now what of "Only from the Mind of Minolta" is left in "Sony.like no other"?

On-board remote flash control. Gone in the "flagship"?

Eye-start?

Hand-grip start?

Direct input and direct readout knobs? Evolved to Quick Navigation?

In-camera anti shake?

What defines your Minolta Alpha(Dynax/Maxxum) photography, and how is it expressed, or not, in Sony Alpha photography so far?

Peter- I'm not sure what you're ramblin' on about, but as far as I'm concerned, as long as the new Sony Flagship alows me to mount my A-mount lenses and has a Full-Frame sensor, I don't care what, if any, old Minolta components is carried over. I'm not stuck in the past, as you seem to be, and if Minolta (KonicaMinolta) didn't want to be in the photographic business, I'm happy that Sony was willing to pick up the ball and run with it.

Perhaps, if you would stop thinking 'Minolta' system, and start thinking 'Sony' system, you'd be a lot happier. The past is past, and the future is yet to come.

Thanks Robert Paul... as long as the A-Mount is still alive... The Mind of Minolta is in alive inside of a Sony wrapper!

You know exactly what I'm saying, because your response was spot on: the A-mount is all that's important to you - the ability to use MINOLTA lenses. (So much for keeping Minolta out of the Sony equation). And so, that's 2 votes for A-mount lenses as all that's needed to keep you two in the Alpha Photographer camp. Thanks for your replies.

Anyone else have their own definition of what it's like to be an Alpha Photographer, for them? What features and benefits are not only essential for you, but do you think are definitive of Alpha Photography gear, that might make up the equivalent slot that the Minolta Alpha/Dynax/Maxxum 800si filled in Minolta's line, only in the future of the Sony's Alpha line?

Color fidelity?

Market-competitive image-capture qualities?

Orange coloring?

Peter- Why don't you tell us what you want to see from Sony? You never seem to tell us what your experiences has been using the Minolta/Sony A-mount system. You alway post things that aren't from your personal experiences using the Minolta/Sony system , but bits of info about Minolta/Sony. You act like you're a forum moderator, which you're not. And reading your last post, it seems like being in a psychologist office. Or, worse of all, it's like you're a CIA interrogator, trying to pry info from me.

So, please, share your experiences, with what you would like to see, or not see in the SONY Flagship or it's system. Tell us what you like about your present Minolta/Sony set-up, so that we have some basis for a discussion.

Pete Blaise Monahon said:

"Anyone else have their own definition of what it's like to be an Alpha Photographer, for them? What features and benefits are not only essential for you, but do you think are definitive of Alpha Photography gear, that might make up the equivalent slot that the Minolta Alpha/Dynax/Maxxum 800si filled in Minolta's line, only in the future of the Sony's Alpha line?"

Well, I feel it would be hard to say what its like to be an Alpha photographer, or a Canon photographer, or a Pentax photographer etc etc. As most of the cameras out there at the moment, that are at the same level, have nearly identical features. Though this is starting to break up a bit now this last year, with the D3, D700, D20, K20D, A350 etc.

I guess the one thing many will point out is in body stabalisation. Thats one feature that is essential to me. Having access to 20+ year old top quality glass is a big part of being an Alpha photographer too... I'm using a 28/2RS, a 200/2.8 HS G, a 100/2.8 macro. All legendary amongst a-mount Minolta users, I know I would have missed them dearly if Sony had gone with a completely new mount and/or stuck a load of Zeiss glass on them. They are top quality, but you can pay very little for top quality with this wealth of lenses with have from Minolta - I payed just over $1200USD for the three of them.
I think the feel of the camera's and the interface of the Alpha mount is important too. Though many aspects are stolen between manufactures, a Sony camera just feels right in my hand atleast.

Really, all I need is a camera that feels good on my hand and a bright viewfinder - if you get those, everything else is usually up to par. In the end, I haven't used any camera as long as you have, so don't really appreciate the features/interface maybe. I know one of the features you miss in the Flagship (upcoming) is a pop up flash. This is less important in the digital age, I feel. Because you can easily bump up the ISO, process and get excellent results. On top of that, if you carry and a fast prime and use SSS, you are almost never lost for the need of a pop up flash as a main light source. However, it is still essential for me. I use wireless flash very frequenty, and enjoy its flexibility in both macro and portraits. I would honestly be lost without SSS and wireless flash for macro photography, as I often can't use a tripod and have to go handheld to get to the subject. So maybe that is whats its like being an Alpha Photographer for me then? Ease of use during handholdable photography; SSS & wireless flash. Hmm, I may have to reavaluate the whole thing :-).

Like Robert says, what do you want to see from Sony? What are the important aspects that make up an Alpha photographer? Essential features? Please tell!

Wet Wet Wet
SSS & 3600HSD :)

... and how does that make you feel? Speak loudly into the microphone bug hidden in the flower pot, and please face the two-way mirror.

==

Robert, the OP opening post was about a potential A800, not flagship. I see the Minolta 800si as a technical tour de force, with nice features like a dragging shutter setting and so on (apparently the brainchild of Minolta USA tech Phil Bradon). Technically, it appears to have a love it or hate it reception out there. What would Sony offer today with an equivalent place in a lineup?

In fact, re-reading the OP opening post, "... why ...?" begs the exact kind of answer I posited: Sony appears to be marketing THIS way ...

Hey, Robert, I LOVE chatting with you, and I take your points about the things I point out, and you motivate me to consider the three fingers pointing back at myself. That's one reason I'm here - because I learn so much not only from the questions and answers from our wonderful fellow members, but also from trying to figure things out for myself, stimulated by the questions and answers. As you note, I don't take questions nor answers for granted, rather, re-confirming their basis and validity for myself. I hope each of us confirms what makes sense for each of us on our own, and also do not take anything for granted.

===

SPECULATE - why not dive in and pour on the imagination? No one can be wrong - that's the point of speculation - a wish list and unarguable predictions.

I predict that Sony will have ONLY full frame sensors in 10 years, by 2018.

I predict that APS-Classic sensors will peter out within 5 years, by 2013.

I predict that neither prediction above needs to coordinate nor make any sense whatsoever.

I predict that Sony will follow Canon and Nikon, letting them designate market segments, but will lead them in features:price ratio in each segment.

I predict that Sony will integrate professional video and the Alpha Lens Mount, especially the Zeiss line. Already done - can anyone help me re-find the adapter to fit Alpha lenses on Sony pro video cameras? I saw it once, and now I can't re- find it myself, dang!

==

What I WANT? This CAN'T be a mystery for anyone anymore, can it?

I want a camera that can be operated single handedly, a cross between my Minolta X-700, Minolta 507si, and Minolta A1.

I want a camera with direct input and direct readout knobs so you can tell what's what even turned off.

I want a camera that reveals all settings while setting them THROUGH THE VIEWFINDER, like the Minolta DiMage 5/7/A-series and Z-series cameras.

Of course I want a competitive camera, price wise and image capture qualities wise.

I want Apical 1,200-sector DRO-plus in software for post production of any image.

I want a small camera that's fully manual, including focus and zoom, like the Minolta DiMage 5/7/A-series (okay, focus by wire is acceptable, but current Sony "bridge" cameras seem to have electronic zoom?).

I want an interchangeable mount well that allows direct use AND CONTROL of Minolta SR/MC/MD/X-600 lenses on a full frame DSLR. Will I get it from Sony? No. But I want it anyway, and hate to think I'll someday get a Canon full frame DSLR to come as close as possible.

I want eye start (and hand grip control of eye start for those who complain that the camera dangling from their neck keeps winding the lens to focus when the camera is not up to their eye).

I want broadcast capture so no police can confiscate my camera and actually get my pictures!

I want GPS integrated, along with IPTC management.

I want a PC interface to control all camera features on the computer screen, including TTL video.

I want 100% viewfinder and live view.

I want a real tall pop up on-camera flash.

Of course I want all cameras to have on-camera flash remote control of off-camera flashes.

I also want all cameras to auto meter with non-electronic lenses (or no lens). The A200 requires manual metering and manual shutter setting, apparently.

==

I want to know what other Minolta and Alpha photographers value in their Minolta and Alpha experiences.

Because I'm apparently a phycologist/spy ... just like everyone else here!

Doh! TURN OFF CENTERING!!!

There, that's better!

I wish photo.net automatically added an all off code to the end of our posts, instead of jsut filtering out my l&h sign-off.