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Harassed by Police for photography on playground. (Memory card confiscated and harassed by police)

Vincent Verna , Mar 25, 2007; 08:28 p.m.

I was shooting in a playground in a public park which to the best of my knowledge is still legal. My parter and I were enjoying the day, talking to parents, shooting pictures of kids at play. No one seemed to have a problem. We decided to move on and about 30 seconds after we drive off the police pull us over and start grilling us. They take our cameras and leave us sitting in the car for a good 25 minutes-half an hour we are then informed that our cameras are being confinscated because we have images of children and an investigation will be opened.

We get directions to the police station which turned out to be WRONG sending us through 3 miles of the worst area of Detroit when we realized hey we're headed in the wrong direction. We turn around and arrive at the police station; before we even reach the front desk a detective comes at us "let me save you some time if i EVER SEE YOU TAKING PICTURES AROUND CHILDREN AGAIN I WILL PIN SOMETHING ON YOU AND FUCK YOU OVER."

We did get our cameras back but they refused to return our memory cards "pending investigation."

To the best of my knowledge my partner and I were well within our rights I beleive the general rule is "Anyone in a public place can be photographed without their consent except when they have a reasonable expectation of privacy" (Bert P Krages, Rights and Remedies when Confronted for Photography 2004)

Am I wrong? Has anyone had similar problems? What course of action would you recommend? (i dont want to sue or anything i jus want to make sure i dont end up in any legal hot water or be labeled a sex offender or something along those lines.)

Responses


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Ronald Moravec , Mar 25, 2007; 08:49 p.m.

I recently attended a nature preserve that had a newly opened really fantastic play area for children.

My wife nad I went to the exit area of a rope bridge and I wanted to photograph the children coming off the the bridge. The group`s teacher went nuts. You would think I was tying them up and drowning them.

My wife, who is a teacher, informed me this is a big NO NO. Rules at her school too.

My granddaughter and classmates have had some man photographing the kids on the school playground. The local police got real serious about it.

I think the problem is the pics are used to advertise children who may be kidnapped and sold. The dirty deeds of a few reflect on rules being imposed on all. All sad the way are freedoms are going, but IF that is what pics are used for, we will have to forgo it.

CE Nelson , Mar 25, 2007; 08:57 p.m.

"Am I wrong? Has anyone had similar problems? What course of action would you recommend? (i dont want to sue or anything i jus want to make sure i dont end up in any legal hot water or be labeled a sex offender or something along those lines."

You need to be talking to your attorney(s), not us. If you were in a public space and not committing a crime, and what happened to you per your accounting is factual, you should be pissed off. Call yer goon. It's his job to sort it out. Might want to contact local press as well.

Next time, do not give up your camera. Let them beat it off you if they want, but do not volunteer a thing, not even if they threaten to book you - let 'em. Go peacefully.

C.

Wigwam Jones , Mar 25, 2007; 08:57 p.m.

Vincent, get an attorney.

Ronald, that's BS. The 'rules of the school' have no bearing on YOU in a public setting. Now, the 'nature preserve' may have rules governing photography, and you have to abide by them - it is up to us to know the rules of private property - and parks, etc also - when we go out to shoot. However, if it was public property, then their 'school rules' don't mean jack to you.

And no, I will not forgo my rights. Photos of kids who may be kidnapped and sold? Are you kidding? Name ONE TIME that has happened in the US. ONE TIME. ONE EXAMPLE of someone posting a photo of a child as an advertisement who was then kidnapped and sold.

That's flat-out unacceptable.

CE Nelson , Mar 25, 2007; 09:02 p.m.

"I think the problem is the pics are used to advertise children who may be kidnapped and sold. The dirty deeds of a few reflect on rules being imposed on all. All sad the way are freedoms are going, but IF that is what pics are used for, we will have to forgo it."

Fook. That. Where does it end? I take a photo of a bank, bank gets robbed, I'm responsible for having posted a clear image of the bank on-line which provoked a crook to find it thinking to himself, "Ooh, what a hot little bank... I wanna violate him...."?

Utterly ridiculous. Totally fallacious - banning photographing of kids-not-yours in the public space will NOT stop child-pornography, kidnapping, murder, rape, etc. Won't even dent it.

C.

Vincent Verna , Mar 25, 2007; 09:30 p.m.

Thanks to those who have replyed thus far, I've left a message with my Laywer already and expect to hear back sometime tomorrow.

I'm sure you understand I was shaken up and very very angry when I finally returned home today as I stated before I was operating with the knowledge of Mr.Krages pamphlet and common sense when it comes to photography in public. The ultimate irony is if anyone had asked us to not photograph their children I would have happily obliged, all the parents I talked to during the day were perfectly fine with the situation.

We'll see what the laywer says tomorrow.

Robert Budding , Mar 25, 2007; 09:34 p.m.

Careful - you might be declared an enemy combatant.

robert edge , Mar 25, 2007; 09:52 p.m.

The reality is that a lot of parents object, absent their consent, to their children being photographed.

Your position, Vincent, is that that they consent unless they catch you at it and object.

Are you serious?

For those of you who don't understand this, and especially those of you who are American and have a tendency to lecture the rest of us about freedom, the fact of the matter is that there are big signs in every Manhattan public playground area that prohibits adults from entering unless they are accompanied by children.

I would be very interested in hearing on this subject from someone who disagrees with that bylaw and especially from someone who says that he has actually vioilated it.

In my view, it is truly extraordinary that every time this issue comes up, participants in this part of photo.net, and the Americans in particular, immediately turn the discussion into a debate about the American constitution.

Michael S. , Mar 25, 2007; 09:55 p.m.

Sounds as though you are in the Detroit Metro Area. You should consider communicating with the ACLU of Michigan as well.

Your counsel should be able to determine what, if anything, is being "investigated" and on what basis your memory cards have been seized.

Reports such as yours, while they are by no means daily occurrences, are cause for concern.

Please let us know how this turns out.

robert edge , Mar 25, 2007; 10:01 p.m.

In case what I am saying is not crystal clear:

Not every issue in life is a legal issue; and

Parents who happen to have guardianship over their kids don't necessarily appreciate their kids being photographed by every self-appointed street photographer on the planet.

I want to add something else. There are cultures, such as in the Middle East, that take serious objection to Americans doing whatever the hell they want photographically on the basis that their laws, as photographers (if not parents) perceive them ought to apply universally.


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