37 - too old to start?

I shall not risk to give advice. I shall tell only about myself. I have begun immersing in this business when my counter showed more than forty five. So your figure, the young man, does not make on me the big impression. Much more important your creative opportunities and presence of enthusiasm.

Travis -

Seems you're asking four or five questions here

1. On quitting you job and starting from scratch - Don't - unless you have a fairly significant savings built up. Especially if the competition in your area (and who's isn't) tough right now. Lately everyone who has a digital slr is a "wedding" photographer. In the most recent yellow pages there's over 500 ads for wedding photographers in my area. Draw up a plan with your partner and decide what's going to make you unique. Save every cent that you can - you'll need it until you get rolling.

2. I started my business at the plus side of 40. Age is a number. Keep in mind though that I have been doing photography since I was in High School. (ahh...the days in the darkroom and the smell of Dektol and D76)

3. Learning as a 2nd shooter or a backup is an excellent way to do it, especially if you don't have friends / family getting married where you can observe the hired photographer. Find someone near you that is willing to take on an inexperienced 2nd shooter.

4. Don't dive in without a plan. Decide what is going to separate you from the competition. Are you going to be high end? (think 3-5 thousand per wedding) Or Budget? - There's a market for both. Some brides automatically go high end others go budget. Neither is wrong... but don't try to be a budget shooter and charge high-end prices. Also, don't try to be high end and deliver budget quality.

5. Absolutely Not! If that's all the equipment you've got, you're woefully under equipped. The 5d is a great wedding camera (and that's coming from a Nikon shooter) but 1 is not enough. You need backups my friend. I shoot weddings with no fewer than 3 bodies. Two are on me at all times and a third is where I can get it quickly should 1 or both fail. Rule #1 of weddings - have at least 1 preferably 2 backups of everything. That includes camera, flash, batteries, lenses, etc.... It's not a cheap thing to dive into. As for the no flash - get two, see rule #1, now! or even better get two plus a portable studio lighting kit. The rational behind backups is this... You don't want to have to walk up to the bride and groom on their day and tell them..."Opps - My only camera just died and I don't have a backup, and I can't fix it now...So sorry - I'm not going to be able to finish your wedding." Not a pleasant moment. You really don't want that to happen.

If after reading all of this...you still decide to do it... Good Luck!

Shooting weddings is perhaps one of the biggest joys of being a photographer, but it's also stressful and costly to get set-up right.

Dave

"I have read some of the informative threads under this forum with regards to starting out from the experts but still am not sure......"

I would suggest that you start reading most of the old threads about first weddings.

I'd second everything David [Haas] says above. And I'm 47 myself. Age is a number. It does help to be in good physical shape, though, because capturing the wedding day is physically challenging and exhausting. As you get older, it doesn't get easier!

I'm waaaaay older than that. I started shooting weddings when I was waaaay older than that (8 years running so far, averaging 15 to 20 a year while holding down a demanding day job) ... and I do all my own post work and printing myself ... and make my own albums ... and carry a MF camera or dual frame pro DSLR that so many seem to weak to use ... and have a bad knee from a 30 year old sports injury : -)

If I can do it anyone can.

As you get older, you just happen to get more experienced ... and hopefully you get smarter ... so you waste less energy on useless movements and frenzied running around like a chicken with it's head cut off ... you get very efficient at picking your positions, and knowing what is coming next so you can anticipate and act without doing it in a nervous panic.

Best of luck!

There are many better qualified to talk equipment but I wouldn't have thought age would be problem, quite the opposite. When we were looking for a wedding photographer I'd probably have had more trouble adjusting to the idea one about the same age or younger than us (which was late 20s at the time). The implicit gravitas/responsibility of age I guess :-).

I started my own successful wedding business at the age of 65 out of a single unplanned wedding when the hired photgrapher dropped out at the last minute. It worked so well that age the age of 72 I quit because I was exhausted did not want to work that hard any more. But then, I had good MF and 35mm equipment, knew something about business and got along very well with my clients with a somewhat fatherly image. I would say at my advanced age that age is only a barrier if you make it so.

Yeah Dick, but you swim too: that keeps you young! Everyone should swim, IMO :)

***

Travis:

37 is young, I started learning the piano at 40.

Where your head is at; enthusiasm; focus; attitude; and discipline are important elements.

***

IMO it is correct to be concerned about the business side of things, in fact many (I believe) do not even recognize it is a business, and go blindly into it because they ``love photography and Aunt Mable said they were a good photographer``.

That said one 5D and two lenses is in no way a suitable amount of gear. In the very first case, what do you do if the 5D freezes? (MINE HAS).

***

Being ``concerned about the business`` leads me to this . . . please take the following commentary as sincere and certainly quite serious, and with the intent of assisting you.

I cannot find words to write it any other way, but directly:

You are an hero here at Photonet, and have been around since 2001 or before, now I guess that means I can assume you know a bit about a bit . . . and have done a bit, and read a bit

So, with that assumed experience and knowledge it really worries me, in a question which is supposedly encompassing a change of one`s life structure one would ask:

``I have a 5D and a 35/50 combo. No flash. Good enough?``

This comment might have been a throw away statement, or just you method of asking, generally what gear is required . . .

But to my reading, I get a certain ``very casual feel`` to the whole question of staring up a business.

Professional Wedding Photography is a business, which has responsibilities to the client and, in some instances, more importantly, to oneself.

If you are to proceed, I suggest you very quickly get more business like, and business focussed and quite serious and professional in the planning stages.

The knowledge, experience, and common sense you already (should) possess and more importantly a business like attitude to the task, seems to not yet being displayed: that is not a good sign for a potential business venturer, IMO.

WW

Well first off, are people begging you to shoot their day?

If that answer is yes, then you have a starting point. If not, I would seek to second/assist someone first.

Your not too old IMO, in fact I think one could start this at age 50+ and be fine.

On the kit front, well you will likely be needing double that and then some + flashes.

Best, D.

Are you too old? No.

Should you quit your job and start on something you've never done before? Not unless you do so with your eyes completely open and know you have the business skills, let alone technical photographic skills, to succeed in a very tough market.

Is your gear good enough? No. You need a flash and you need complete back-up.

WW. Everyone else should swim only if there is room enough left in the pool for me.

Travis. A couple of pieces of advice. The first is to structure your business on Quick Books or similar from day one. It is important to know at all times what is coming in and what's going out. If you don't have a full range of equipment and how to use it don't start until you do. You have to have some ideas, goals and methods for acquiring clients other some ethereal fantasy about where they are coming from. I did my business in a Maine Coastal town that attracted weddings. I got a lot of clients from the Chamber of Commerce. I knew everyone there who dealt with the public as they took a lot of phone inquiries. I was the first one they thought of. I established affiliation with local inns for referrals. I worked for the local paper doing general news and for a time all of their sports which got referrals. I got referrals from that. I knew a couple of Justices of the Peace who helped a lot. After being an executive, I had to learn how to subordinate my ego to that of my customers, particularly to the wedding party and relatives. This was a cultural change for me. It takes a while to build cash flow so have a way to eat while you are losing money while tracking the amount in Quick Books. Good work produces referrals. Even though I did weddings about seven months out of the year because business was seasonal I worked better than full time in season. I picked up the local hospital for all their photos. I wound up doing parties and anything else someone would pay me for. Because most clients were from away(as they say in Maine). Along with a JOP I would relocate venues in pouring rain, make a hotel reservation or two, and do all sorts of things that a wedding coordinator would do if there were to have been one. I provided my wife as a witness in a two person wedding where the lovely bride wore a beautiful wedding dress with no one but her husband, my wife, the JOP to see it. We provided some social contact afterward. Some of it was a lot of fun. The business grew rapidly because I delivered proofs and an enlargement made by me in less than two weeks and hand delivered them in person if the clients were in driving distance. Things have changed since I quit the business just before I converted to digital. I had a darkroom and a studio and good MF and 35mm gear. Three of everthing just about. Today, processing is different: there are many more poorly equipped people doing poor weddings at low prices, and I think because of that, the competition is much greater. I really had a lot of my local market then. I don't think it would be so today. So I would say that primarily the key to success is successful marketing and business planning. However, if you don't produce a quality product marketing will collapse in short order over a bad reputation. As someone said, this is a business and it has to be treated like one from the outset.

Well, you're going to be 37 no matter what you do. So don't let that stop you!

By the way, IMHO, this is a one person business when you start. It was a long time before my business would support two people and then I did not do it. I wanted to keep it all for myself.

Thanks everyone for helping.

WW, your advice is excellent. I will certainly correct my sloppy self. My job now is not strictly a business and doing weddings probably gonna be very different and demanding. I should really research more on this business model, practice protocols and gear information before I even put on my swimming trunks(to dive in). I will keep reading this forum and discuss with my friend continually and hopefully we can start up small, do a few gigs and then move up.

;)

Travis: It is very pleasing to me that my comments were taken simply, as professional advice and not a personal comment.

Frankly, I thought long and hard before writing any comment at all, I am now glad I did say, exactly what I thought was the best advice.

***

In the middle of Dick Arnold`s comments there is: ``I had to learn how to subordinate my ego to that of my customers, particularly to the wedding party and relatives. This was a cultural change for me``

This kinda applies to me: I too have to keep my ego in check around the Wedding Party, and let it out when, and if, it is OK.

As well as disciplined business skills, people management skills are very necessary, for a good W&P business, IMO.

Travis, good Luck with it.

Regards,

WW

Not good enough. You need a ton of gear and some instructions from the ig wedding studios. Keep your job for now and start slow. You aren't too old.

Not too old.

Don't quit your day job.

You need backup equipment but it doesn't have to be top of the line. Two copies of the same body would be nice.

If you still have it, your film camera could be your backup. Absolutely need flashes for the cameras in my view.

I started in my mid 30's. I certainly wasn't asking questions like your's though. You aren't anywhere near ready. Start by assisting.

No, your not too old by a long shot.

However, your stmt "I have a 5D and a 35/50 combo. No flash. Good enough?" sounds like comedy hour.

Here is what I would suggest: 1) Read everything here about weddings, 2) Get the right gear -- meaning backups and flash units -- ie, basic photog 101, 3) Read every book available on the subject, 4) Take some classes, 5) Get hands on experience, 6) Keep your day job until you are proficient and have started to build the business.

Too many people think they can go down to Walmart, buy the latest camera, and viola they're now a wedding photographer. In any profession there is a learning curve and wedding photographer is no different. Consider what I wrote above, hire yourself out cheaply to gain experience, and within two years you should be ready to tackle some jobs alone.

If you live in Sacramento, and you're a talented photographer, then you're waaaaay too old. Forget weddings =)

On a serious note, why even ask this question when you're the only one with the correct answer. My gut feeling is that if you have to ask, then you're already considering defeat as an option. Come back when you have decided what to do with your life, and say .. I'm 37 and I WILL photograph weddings. Because you're the only one who can make that call, not me and a bunch of suprisingly old photographers=)... Am I the youngest one here (26)?

And who cares about competition? I say.. They're only competition if you haven't risen beyond. Like DJ said, either be a bargain, or be high end. Try not to get lost in the middle. Easier said than done.

Thx people. I will be checking out some basic lighting set up(of which i know nothing about) tomorrow. My friend has started reading up a bit more too. We are not trying to overstretch our capablilities because as i said, we have ZERO experience in this. We certainly hope to pick up as much surviving tips we can along the way and hopefully not too long in the future(by year end), we can do something for a couple as a team on the cheap. Both of us have been shooting mainly street in our past and this present idea was just what we wanted to do all along.

I see this board of experts with abundant knowledge in this field and thought this is the only place i could ask this silly question. Everyone has to start somewhere right? ;)

Thanks. Will keep you guys updated of our progress.

Age is in the mind, methinks :) One thing I have come to learn in my relative short (just under 3 decades of) life on planet earth is that photography as an art/science and photography as a business are about as different as one can get! Knowing what I do now, there is NO WAY I would set up a photography business right now. I just haven't got the business skills yet and I'm noyt yet willing to commit to hire someone full-time to take care of that side of things. So my plan is to consult with a good friend wh is well-versed with business and accounting. I'll pay on a pro rata basis while I learn the ropes from her myself. Or maybe I might just hire someone full-time when I decide to take the plunge. A good friend of mine always says, let the experts do their job...

The age aspect is not a problem, as stated above the equipment issue is. A suggestion that might help you earn some money to help buy your new toys is to start shooting some portraits on the side. This will help establish you in your market also and you don't need per say all of the backup equipment that is needed for the wedding business. There are plenty of good books and remarks on this site that will help you start shooting and start a business. Best wishes, Joel