What to do when a client can't pay AFTER the wedding

Well, you can try and enforce the contract (and the attorney that helped you write it is the right source for advice on that) but if they are out of money, they are out of money. However, if they are able to reschedule payments/deliveries, it certainly seems reasonable to do so. I'm not sure that getting proofs early in one month and not having decided before the end of the month would necessarily be an unusually long time.

If he's really just been laid-off, they may still be trying to adjust to the new realities and delaying or reducing cash outflow until they have had a chance to really get resettled is probably occupying a lot of their waking hours. Having gone through several lay-offs, I can assure it's not easy and some patience will likely be greatly appreciated.

Hard to believe that people'd get married and not keep a backup sum of money for an emergency like a layoff.

Perhaps you could give them a 12 month payment plan? They might be able to afford small monthly payments.

Keith, be honest and straigh forward with them. Let them know that you need the money. The costs of paying an assistanmt, post prossecing,printing, etc, will be a burden to you if you are not paid in full AS the CONTRACT states, and lord, I pray that you signed a contract with them stating so.

I think a payment plan is a good direction to move toward. I'll see where they're at in a month or so.
Thanks guys.

Experience is the most expensive education. I would say you are pretty much SOL. Even if you have a legal case, pursing the case will only lead to negative feelings and if word of mouth got out, it may actually hurt future business (the photographer that sued his bride). And even then you would still need to collect on any judgement. NOTHING should have been delivered until you had been paid. You have delivered, thereby reducing any urgency to pay and as their ability to pay has also changed, again, isn't looking too good. We collect everything PRIOR to the wedding. I wish you the best but other than writing a letter outlining your position, along with wishful prayers, I doubt you see any money.

Mike, I typically collect a 50% deposit, but after this issue and with the struggling economy and people finding themselves in increasingly dire financial situations, I have been giving some thought to collecting a full payment prior to the shoot like you do. Good advice. Thanks.

You might want to think about collecting the total of what's owed the day of the wedding. I require 1/3 of the total package as a retainer with the balance being due the day of the wedding. So far it's worked for me:)

Eliza- We used to operate that way as well....until a check didn't clear. Now we require a retainer of $xxx at the time of signing the contract with the balance due 30 days prior to the wedding. This gives the check time to clear the banks and enough time to react if something were to go wrong.

Keith, speaking as someone who is out of work at the moment, let me suggest you take the friendly approach and try to work with them on this... carefully consider what you can live with, and offer a payment plan or some other option. You can't get blood from a turnip (legal action in other words). Several years ago I went through a financial dry spell, and had mixed experiences with different creditors. One of those, American Express, I will never forgive or forget how meanly I was treated, and I am more than happy to share my dislike of them with every rep that calls me asking for my business.
And, as others have suggested, payment in full for the service portion of the contract prior to performance on the day of the wedding might be a good thing. And then the wedding books/pp/etc. can be a separate cost.

Keith - This doesn't answer your question but you and anyone reading this thread should learn something from this.

Never, and I mean never... give proofs or DVD's to a couple until all payments are received and cleared with the bank. Put this under lessons learned and I hope you get paid.

Keith, a bit of advice that will help you, as others have stated, is to change your billing practices. I don't have collection issues because I get half the amount as a non-refundable "retainer fee" (not "deposit") up front at contract signing, and the other half either ON or at any time BEFORE the wedding day. I encourage most couples to pay up a couple of weeks before the wedding. Most do. I will sometimes allow them to break the whole cost into three payments, but they all must be paid up before wedding day. If they fail to do this, I shoot the event anyway, but withhold EVERYTHING until payment is made.

The reason for this, just as you've found out, is that too many people have big fancy weddings and are broke afterward.

Put these folks on a payment plan, and don't charge them any interest. Then, consider yourself lucky if you get your money eventually. What you will lose on interest payments is the cost of learning this lesson. I hold nothing against these folks, and you shouldn't either. They're in a very tough spot, and they may not be able to make any payments for awhile. In the hierarchy of their living expenses, your bill will come dead last.

Keith, You're probably not going to see a dime from them. For future bookings I recommend what we have always done - get a retainer with a signed contract and have the balance due on or before 2 weeks prior to the wedding date.

I agree with Steve about being your bill being low in priority to the clients right now, especially because they got the proofs. Even if they have to give them back, they will probaly scan them, either way they have images to enjoy for now so paying you is not nearly as important to them. Work with them. A payment plan is OK but try to get them to make realistic arrangements instead of telling you what you want to hear. If they really will pay you in a couple months that's great but it may not actually happen as you are told. You might offer to excuse some of the fee in return for a lump sum payment of a lesser amount made by a certain date or if they make timely payments under a plan. The last two payments could be excused if the rest are made on time for example. Its an incentive to make you a bit of a priority.

Obviously up front full payments will end these post wedding issues in the future. Requiring final payment two to four weeks prior to the wedding will help avoid the bounced checks and last minute excuses and sob stories (real and exaggerated) arising right against the wedding day or that day itself. Have a liqudated damages clause that spells out what you get to keep if they breach the contract, fail to pay, cancel, ect. Having the final payment due BEFORE the wedding also means they have time to find someone or Uncle Bob in case you will be releived of your duties. You then keep your non-refundable amount and life goes on. If you do require final payment on the wedding day then yiou are exposed to deciding to shoot and hold images or walk. If you decide to run these kind of risks, at least require funds to clear before they get to even see anything. People who owe money have a habit of suddenly finding faults with the images as a basis to get let off the hook or reduce the fee.

I am sorry that you are in this position. I would keep trying (without getting nasty) to have them pay though.
In the mean time, make a future plan to be paid in full before the day or at the very least, don't give negs till payment is received. Some people wait to process the files until payment has been received if they are not paid before the day.

All great points. A bright side is when I said they have the proofs, what I mean is they have access to the client side of my website, where they can view their heavily watermarked, non-saveable proofs electronically. so nothing has been physcially given to them.
i mean them no ill will. i will treat them with the respect i treat everyone client with and I shall see what happens. Obviously, I need to re-evaluate my billing practices. thanks for all of your input!

Keith, I have two clients in a similar position right now - one from Thanksgiving and another from early December. I always collect the balance by the day of the wedding, but their checks bounced. This is the first time in years and years for me that a client check has bounced. The only difference is that I always wait 3 weeks before delivering the pics...so they don't have them yet. Still, it's appearing that payment is not forthcoming from either client due to lay-offs.

What to do? ...Be kind. Put yourself in the client's position. How would you like to be treated?

Yes, this is a business...but it's a "people" business.

Yes, this is a business...but it's a "people" business

+1

One other point about the last payment...in my contract, I have a clause that says payments made within the last two weeks before the wedding must be paid with a check drawn on a bank that has a locally accessible branch, or in cash / money order. Or, they can make arrangements with me for a credit card transaction. Reason being that if the check is drawn on a local bank and given within that last two weeks, I can present it to their bank branch and find out right away whether the funds will clear. If not, I know that going into the wedding. Trust, but verify.

I have to agree with Mary on this one....the B/G get nada from me until full payment is recieved. Just to avoid situations like this.

We bought a sectional sofa that was a fraction of its price. Why? Because it was a custom-ordered piece, and the original buyers put down a deposit, and then changed their minds. So the store was trying to get some money out of it. Can't do that with wedding photos. Not many other people want somebody else's pictures over their mantle. :)

"and the entire shoot is post processed"

I do not process images until payment is received in full. I'm not in the business of chasing after accounts receivable. When I wish to do volunteer work, I'll do so for the charity of my choice. That led me to require payment upfront before I spend a lot of time processing images. Holding the proofs hostage isn't good enough. I have one couple that I've never heard from since their wedding. Another took over a year to select their images. Both were paid in full. I do not pressure couples to select pictures under a deadline, but I also make sure I'm not out unpaid time and expenses.

Eric

when I said they have the proofs, what I mean is they have access to the client side of my website, where they can view their heavily watermarked, non-saveable proofs electronically. so nothing has been physcially given to them.

So they don't "have the proofs". This is better than indicated before but, as mentioned, letting them see proofs could invite some to make trumped up challenges as to quality in an effort to gain some sort of advanage. If your contract does not require they be posted or if the non payment will excuse the posting, consider taking even the watermarked versions down. You can still be nice in the "people business" sense, but its good to tighten up your postion while being reasonable overall.

Communicate. Tell them your position. Be honest. Perhaps they will try to make amends and you can offer a payment plan.

Not sure how I'd react to that situation - I collect a retainer when the contract is signed - Non-Refundable unless the wedding is cancelled and I book another for that date and the balance before the day of.

While I understand the advice John provided regarding taking the photos down from your site - I'd do just the opposite as a sign of good faith and leave them up. If it were me and the photos were suddenly gone from the site, I'd be on the phone PDQ (Pretty Darn Quick) with you asking what had happened and why they are down... You might give them ideas that they never even had.

John - you seem to be looking at it from the angle that they (client) are looking for an excuse not to pay. I prefer to take the client at their word - everyone is experiencing some degree of difficulty right now unless you happen to be CEO or an Executive with a contract. I guess I'd give them the benfit of the doubt on this one.

Dave

this is a real stupid question but what is the difference between a retainer and a deposit??

Just a quick note - if they can see the proofs, they can save the proofs. You can't make something unsaveable.

Just a quick note - if they can see the proofs, they can save the proofs. You can't make something unsaveable.

Hmm.. Thanks, but not so sure about that. its a flash gallery and the image directory that it pulls from is noindex protected. the XML code is secret too. if they are computer wizzes, then i suppose they could take a screen shot of the image, but then the best they could get is 72 ppi, barely good enough for a 4x6 print. even html can be safeguarded with javascript, unless they are using the Opera browser, which for some reason still ignores that particular javascript function. Luckilly, no one I've ever met uses Opera.

Not a stupid question at all, Brooke. Retainers are a fee your client pays you to "retain" you and your personal services for her wedding date. You are promising to her that short of death or uncontrollable act of God, you will be there to perform the services as agreed (if death or God intervene, you give them back no more than they've paid so far). With this fee and a signed contract, you are agreeing to turn away all other offers for your services that day, even if they are more lucrative. Should the wedding go south, you can potentially be stuck without a booking for that date (having turned others away), and will lose out on the other half of the revenue. That's why we clearly state that it's "non-refundable" over and over.

A deposit is typically seen as something that is refundable. Like when we used to turn in empty drink bottles to get the deposit money, or when you rent an apartment and get your deposit back if you don't trash the place. It's insurance for the merchant, but they give it back if you hold up your end of the deal.

The sad fact is that too many people approach their wedding plans with big ideas, money plans that don't materialize, and half-baked relationships. Relatives who were going to contribute to the wedding get laid off, people's eyes are bigger than their bank accounts, and Cupid's arrow sometimes misses in a very big way. We simply cannot play their games or suffer these calamities with them.

We are in business. To remain in business, we have to prepare for these folks by adopting careful plans and protecting ourselves with contracts. We must have cash flow to survive in these economic times. We cannot afford for well-meaning but haphazard people to break up or change their plans and throw us out of kilter financially. Not if we are to survive and prosper, and be able to serve our other clients adequately. The solvency of your business extends not only to one client and your own success, but to how well you can fulfill the needs of your other clients. By charging the non-refundable retainer, you protect yourself and your other clients.

No, it's true. If they can see them, they can save them. The watermarking is a form of protection, as is providing only small files. And that's all good. Disabling right-click is an annoyance, but doesn't protect the images. You're right that a screen grab is all that's required.

A third with the booking.
A third on the day.
A third with the cd.

Thanks Steve!

Keith. When I started my wedding business in 1997 I did not have the benefit of all the experienced advice you are getting here. I had to learn the hard way when I started. I did not have the cash flow to cover legal expenses. I also got into the business totally by accident and did not prepare well before hand. I did my my first couple or three weddings on a hand shake as I did not think I was really in this business. That changed as to my surprise I picked up more business. I learned the hard way about structuring contracts in this business even though I ran large contracts in an earlier life. I also knew that recovering fifteen hundred dollars on a wedding might cost me 2000 in legal fees and that I was pretty much stuck with what I arranged with the client. Based upon my hard won experience, I guess I would offer a little advice. Your clients sound like decent human beings in a bad spot. I would sit down, face to face, in a conciliatory way and explain to them exactly what they owe to you and why. Then I would offer to structure a payment plan that they could meet until life got better for them. You cannot get blood out of a stone. I had a circumstance with decent people where I carried them for over a year. I ultimately got my money and we wound up friends. They were nice people. Other than that you can write it off as a bad debt and move on. Your business is not Visa or Master Card and as you have relatively few clients you can be more humane. Before I had my photo business I ran major systems procuement for a large entity. I had lawyers on my staff. Believe me, through two major contract terminations I learned to avoid litigation and hostile threatening at all costs because I learned by experience how devastating that stuff can be to both parties and their employees. In my opinion try and work it out with them and go on to your next gig.

Keith, take a DVD with all the photos, go to their house and speaking form the bottom of your heart say: Here is my present to you, may you have a happy life together.

Dave, A follow up to your comments...

I think your approach to the online proofs is fine as its a judgment call based on an individual situation. I totally see where you are coming from. Its just something to consider based on a case by case basis. Giving some benefit of the doubt seems reasonable. The arrangements may require the online proofing be posted anyway.

I'll have to disagree that I am suggesting that the client is looking for an excuse not to pay. This is because they have already given one, at least temporarily. The excuse given is why I suggest working with them and even suggested cutting a break if they continue to act in good faith.

Keith will figure out what's best in any event after considering different ideas. He knows the clients better than we do.

After reading your saga I have a few suggestions. First, charge more, get more up front and this won't be an issue. The most expensive part of the wedding besides materials is you being there. Second, meet with every couple for 20 minutes or so about 10 days before the wedding (Final planning session). At that time review and talk through the whole wedding and stress how the family photos can be very time consuming, decide when and where they will be done and tell them to have everyone notified ahead of time to be ready because otherwise it will waste precious time during their special day. Then collect the last payment you need so that in case something like your saga happens, who cares. I never sold "packages", I charged for my day rate and materials, once that was done I sat down with the couple and let them order off the "discounted" price list for 60 days, then it was the regular list, about 20% higher. I told the couple up front that if all else fails they keep their proofs anyway and I'll give them an album to put 50 proofs in and their done. In 11 years before I stopped shooting weddings in 1998, I have one stale wedding album and portrait sitting here from a couple who's wedding failed quickly. What do I care, I got paid 2/3 for the order which covered all materials and a profit, the final 1/3 would have been more profit. It's all how you sell the wedding and structure your payments. Remember also your time is money too so all the after-nonsense needs to be made as cost effective as possible, put everything you can in your favor not theirs.

Without payment > on or before < there wedding date ...we do not even process their images.

Keith, you are learning the same lession I learned some time ago.

I moved to pre-payment years ago. All money is in the bank before I even shoot a wedding.