Ok...I did this to myself....

Sounds like the most important thing, here, is that the amateur beat you to releasing a couple of social-media-friendly proofs to amuse the bride and her family/friends. That has to be a new priority for pros working an event: at least an immediate sign of life for that all-important new communication channel.

Dave - could you or someone elaborate on what you mean by "...ask the right questions" (number 3 on your list). What would those questions be?

Thanks.

Dave,

Pretty much the same thing happened to me a couple years ago, at one of the first weddings I shot. Same story—avid amateur photographer friend of bride has asked bride if he could come and take photos. I did talk to him beforehand and tried, very nicely—I'm a nice guy and not pushy—to explain my "rules" (basically, stay out of my shots and don't get in my way). He agreed. I also asked him to come to the rehearsal so we could talk a bit more and perhaps do some coordination in advance.

He didn't come to the rehearsal. That should have told me something.

At the wedding, I did ask him to shoot from the other side of the church, and that worked okay.

But after the wedding, while I was trying to shoot formals and deal with moving people on and off, the bride disappears and then I see he's pulled her aside to do a portrait of her. That's when I really should have pulled HIM aside and had a brief chat.

At the reception it got worse. He's in quite a few of my photos, including some that would have been much nicer without him.

*

I understand that these days, 2 out of 3 guests have SOME kind of camera with them at the wedding, if it's only a cell phone. 1 out of 5 seems to bring something better than a cell phone. Some of these photos DO show up online very quickly, because the takers go home, and I think some of them just upload the files straight from their camera. Somebody here posted very recently about somebody else (may have been the videographer) who was either selling prints or showing a slideshow of photos taken minutes ago, while the reception was still in progress!

I also understand that it's my job to make sure that MY photos are much better than those taken by the amateurs.

Still, I found that experience very frustrating and I work now to avoid a repeat. It's not the real amateurs that bother me. It's the enthusiast friend. It's much easier to take one or two good photos when you are attending the wedding without any real responsibilities. If you miss the kiss, or the vows or the bouquet toss, or whatever, it doesn't matter, because you weren't being paid to shoot them and in fact you had no obligation to shoot anything. So you can stroll around and just take the photos you feel like taking.

That would be fine except when the enthusiast starts to compete with the pro. That one time a couple years ago, I found it rather distracting.

*

In the end, this may be a problem that has no simple solution. So many people have cameras you simply can't control who is doing what. You and I were both asked in advance. But now I find that there are folks at weddings with DSLRs who are simply going around and taking their own photos and don't think to ask me or the bride. There's nothing you can do about that.

Bottom line: You have to be better than the amateurs and the enthusiasts. If the bride has to wait for your photos, you have to make the photos worth the wait. In my case, I've started hedging my bets by (a) continuing of course to try always to make my photos better than any amateur's but (b) by getting "proofs" online very quickly, within days of the wedding. I think this is critically important now. Clients have no patience, a limited attention span, and if I can't deliver photos for weeks, well, by that time the wedding is old news, at least for some of my younger clients.

Will

Regarding FB, you sound a little jealous that she is getting praises and none are given to you. You gotta expect that from people, they like getting all the credit, and people will always praise someone they know. From your story it sounds like she lost her respect for you as a professional and started seeing you as just a person with a camera " I grab wedding party and head over to spot where bride wants formals - other photographer asks Bride - is it okay if I tag along ? Bride says of course.". All I gotta say is that sucks, but it wouldnt be a fun career without competition.

If you aren't selling by the image/print, what does it matter if other guests, including wanna be wedding photographers, put images up on social networking sites, or anywhere online, actually? Any one of them can claim they were the primary photographer at the wedding. Sure, their images can dilute the couple's reception of you wedding images, but the fact that they hired you instead of letting their wanna be friend shoot the wedding should at least give you some confidence. If you are worried, process 3-5 images from the wedding overnight and put them up on your blog or e-mail them to the couple. Then take your time with the rest of the images.

I would be and am, more concerned about the actual wedding day behavior. The last 5 weddings I've shot, there has been someone with a serious kit shooting 'with deliberation', at 3 of them. They all had varying degrees of interference with what I was doing, none of them serious enough for me to take aside to have a 'chat'.

However, I do not invite them to join me in sessions, and if asked will decline their tagging along. If forced to deal with them because the bride gave them permission to tag along, over my wishes, I tolerate them, but will speak up if they start shooting over my shoulder or start directing the couple--particularly the latter, because time is always in short supply.

As for the rest of the day, I will speak up if they are running around during the ceremony, particularly if there are strict rules, and if they are running around during the reception. The last one was dancing into the crowd on the dance floor and whirling around with the camera over her head, firing her flash direct. I used to help people like this, and give them chances to shoot. No more.

Matt - Yes - exactly what I did - got some up on FB right away.

Chris - Questions would be: How many weddings? What are you going to do with the photos? Are they for Portfolio use only?

Will - Spot on. I have a person who even though is a friend is my toughest critic. She will pick on the slightest imperfection in any photo she reviews of mine. Then she makes me fix it and promise to not do it again - This has made me a much better photographer.

Alex - I don't think she lost respect - You have to have it in the first place to lose it. Yes - there probably is a touch of the green eyed monster there, but my FB friends are very complementary too... There's competition and then there's ethics...IMHO. She did make a comment on her fb page that she wishes she could have "stole" the b/g away for a few more shots (assuming without me around).

Nadine - I don't count on print sales - so I price my work accordingly - print sales are almost like a tip to me. The annoyance factor comes in that if someone happens to stumble across her photos and mine - they would be wondering just who shot these? The bride did preface her asking me if it was okay with "Are you still planning to shoot our wedding?" my guess is that if I had hesitated or paused she may have said - Okay fine. But since I said Yes and had a signed contract this may have been the easy path for the bride.

Dave.

Dave, I'm one of those amateur-enthusiasts so my thoughts might shed some light on the situation, albeit not necessarily representative of all those like myself.

I would definitely be respectful of a pro's responsibilities to get the shots and make judgements about what's appropriate conduct if not explicitely explained. Being a series amateur and acquiring somewhat of a reputation among friends, my objective as a casual guest shooter would be the same as yours - to get as many good shots as I possibly can without getting in the way, and here's the rub: while I'm not competing against the pro-shooter, I'll also be unaware of what might be perceived as resentful conduct.

I concur with Will's remark about the common use of cameras at such events; it's an unavoidable sign of the times so people like me will only be even more common. For the most part, I also think wedding couples have the desire to compile as many photos as they can in addition to those from their hired pro, and will often see no conflict.

This might also touch on an unrelated topic - shooting style - which from (at least some) enthusiasts' perspective might expect a pro to have the versatility to make artistic photos of a potentially chaotic situation.

I also concur with Will's bottom line. The very definition of competition has perhaps changed and is no longer limited to other pros. Amateurs like myself will continue to do our best as friends and family of the couple, for free, with accomplishment and a what little gratitute received as our reward.

Thanks Michael -

I agree that the horse has left the barn so to speak - it's completely unrealistic to think that there isn't going to be a herd of folks at a wedding with DSLR's and yes - they can probably get them on FB much quicker than a pro will.

To me - differences between a pro and amateur are becoming increasing meaningless in terms of equipment. (she was shooting with an EOS 7d and nice lenses, Me with a D700 and D300 and equally nice lenses) And for the record no one represented her as an amateur.

Competition is going to continue - I get that... and friends with camera's add an additional level to it.

I forgot to add - I do agree with Nadine - I too used to offer to help people with settings and questions at weddings and stop them when they were about to do a no-no... No more from me either.

It is a complex and multifaceted issue. It will get more commonplace.

One facet is the Friend had different rapport with the Bride than did the Photographer.

Another facet is the Friend was playing the game by different rules to the Professional Photographer

In regard to “assisting” - I note that the critiques and responses we place here, in this forum, are indeed vital assistance to those wanting to Shoot and then Facebook a Wedding, before the pro even begins their PP.

WW